Seeking intuition on movement of COM

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the movement of a weight on a ramp that is also mobile, emphasizing the concept of the center of mass (COM) in a dynamic system. The key formula presented is based on the conservation of momentum and energy, illustrating that the COM of the combined system remains constant despite the movement of the box on the ramp. The participants clarify that the normal force acting on the ramp and the gravitational force do not influence the horizontal component of the COM, as there are no external horizontal forces acting on the system.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of center of mass (COM) concepts
  • Familiarity with conservation of momentum and energy principles
  • Basic knowledge of free body diagrams
  • Grasp of forces acting on inclined planes
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of the center of mass formula in dynamic systems
  • Explore the principles of conservation of momentum in non-closed systems
  • Learn about free body diagram techniques for analyzing forces on inclined planes
  • Investigate the effects of friction on mobile systems and their impact on COM
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Physics students, educators, and engineers interested in mechanics, particularly those studying dynamics and the behavior of systems involving moving masses and forces.

fahraynk
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Basically a weight moves from starting point on a ramp down to the bottom of the ramp. The ramp is on wheels so the ramp will also move. The formula is based on the center of mass of the combined object. Center of mass does not move.
XA0 = position of small mass before it slides down ramp
XB0 = position of COM of ramp before box slides
XA,XB= new position after box slides

$$X_{A0}M1+X_{B0}M2 = X_{COM}(M1+M2)\\
X_{A}M1+X_{B}M2 = X_{COM}(M1+M2)\\
X_{A0}M1+X_{B0}M2 = X_{A}M1+X_{B}M2$$

My question is where does this come from? Assuming I did not know this through repetition that the COM would not move... what physical laws would you apply to come to this conclusion?

If the box is sitting on the ramp, there should be a force normal to the ramp as M1gSin(theta). Isn't this the force on the ramp whether the mass is moving or not? If the ramp is not moving before the box moves that means friction between the ramp and floor is holding it in place. So... that will still be canceled out whether the box is moving or not. Where does this center of mass formula come from??
 
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Conservation of energy.
Conservation of momentum.
 
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You can do a free body diagram. It's not a closed system because you have gravity pulling down, and the ramp is being supported by the ground which provides an upward normal force. But you can see that gravity and the normal force are completely vertical. There is no horizontal component to the external force on the system, so there is no change in the horizontal component of the center of mass.
 

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