Selective Surfaces for Solar Thermal Conversion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on selective surfaces for solar thermal conversion, focusing on the properties that make materials effective for absorbing solar radiation while minimizing thermal losses. Participants explore the implications of thermal equilibrium, emissivity, and absorption characteristics in relation to high-temperature black body radiation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that an ideal selective surface would have high absorptance in the 0.2-2.5 μm range and low emittance, raising questions about the compatibility of these properties with Kirchhoff's law, which states that emissivity equals absorption in thermal equilibrium.
  • Another participant questions whether the system is indeed in thermal equilibrium, suggesting that this condition may affect the discussion.
  • A different viewpoint proposes that the goal of such materials is to control nonradiative relaxation to prevent reaching thermal equilibrium.
  • One participant discusses the implications of thermal equilibrium with a 5000 K black body, noting that emissivities are near one at that temperature and questioning how to absorb heat while preventing emission at lower temperatures.
  • Another participant suggests that enhancing nonradiative relaxation through chemical composition or structural changes is key for selective surfaces.
  • A later reply agrees with the idea of enhancing nonradiative relaxation and mentions the role of physical properties and surface characteristics in emissivity.
  • One participant argues that the discussion may be overly complex, emphasizing that the absorber is likely at a lower temperature (around 300 K) and can be designed to absorb effectively in the desired spectrum while reflecting poorly in others, drawing an analogy to color in paints.
  • Another participant references a handbook on heat transfer to support claims about emissivities and absorbances of various surfaces at different temperatures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between absorption and emission properties, the conditions of thermal equilibrium, and the mechanisms behind selective surfaces. No consensus is reached on these points, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the topic, including the dependence on temperature and material properties, as well as the unresolved nature of certain assumptions regarding thermal equilibrium and emissivity.

Carlos de Meo
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Hi Guys
I was reading about selective surfaces for solar thermal conversion and, according to the literature, an ideal material for that would have high absorptance in the 0.2-2.5 μm (due to the Planck distribution for a 5000 K black body, i guess) and also low emittance to suppress the losses due to reradiation. How can that be possible?
According to Kirchoff law, emissivity=Absorption in thermal equilibrium, so, a good absorber is also a good emitter (that´s how high emissivity coatings work)
 
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Carlos de Meo said:
in thermal equilibrium
Is the system in thermal equilibrium?
 
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So the main idea behind of this kind of material is to control the nonradiative relaxation and preventing it to achieve thermal equilibrium?
 
Thermal equilibrium with a "black body" at 5000 K is 5000 K. Emissivities at all wavelengths are near one at 5000 K; bright metallic surfaces have low emissivities at lower temperatures, closer to (our) ambient. The object is absorbing heat radiated from a high temperature black body, say 5000 K, and preventing emission below? What? 500 K?
 
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I was thinking about the solid structure and the interaction with . When a photon is absorbed promoting a system to a quantum excited state, it might emit a photon, undergo a nonradiative relaxation or a combination of both. For a selective surface, the key is to enhance the nonradiative relaxation process through chemical composition or other changes?
 
Carlos de Meo said:
For a selective surface, the key is to enhance the nonradiative relaxation process through chemical composition or other changes?
"Yes." Take advantage of extant physical properties, plus perhaps some observed behaviors; specular surfaces have lower emissivities than non-specular, ...
 
Now that makes sense. Thank you very much Bystander
 
I think this is all sounding too exotic. The spectrum being absorbed is from the 5000K black body called the sun. It's radiation is essentially all between 0.2 and 2.5 um. You want good absorption there. The absorber is NOT at 5000K and it doesn't emit 0.2 to 2.5um photons. It is probably around 300K and has its black body emission spectrum peaked at about 9.5 um. It doesn't violate any rules for a surface to be a good absorber at one wavelength and highly reflective in another. In the visible we call that color. In exactly the same way that red barn paint absorbs blue light but reflects red light you can choose a solar material that absorbs in the visible through NIR but reflects (and emits poorly) in the FIR. It's just color.
 
Cutter Ketch said:
I think this is all sounding too exotic.
See Rohsenow & Hartnett, Handbook of Heat Transfer, Ch. 15; emissivities/absorbances are as advertised, low for bright metals at ordinary temperatures (0.01 for polished), > 0.5 for other surfaces (all painted surfaces), and increasing generally from there with temperature to ~ 1.
 

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