Setting up Fick's Law with Internal heating

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Fick's Law to heat flow in a resistor with internal heating. Participants explore the mathematical formulation of the problem, the appropriateness of using Fick's Law versus Fourier's Law, and the implications of different modeling approaches in the context of heat transfer.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a partial differential equation (PDE) for heat flow based on Fick's Law, incorporating a term for internal heating but questions its mathematical validity due to the use of differential elements instead of derivatives.
  • Another participant challenges the mathematical correctness of the PDE and suggests using a control volume approach to derive a more sensible differential equation.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of Fick's Law to heat transfer, with one participant advocating for the use of Fourier's Law and traditional heat transfer equations instead.
  • A participant notes that Fick's laws were derived from empirical diffusion experiments but acknowledges a text that connects Fourier's law to Fick's law for heat flow modeling.
  • Discussion includes a correction regarding the term for local heat production, with a focus on current density and resistivity, and the implications of assuming uniformity in the resistor's cross-section.
  • One participant emphasizes the need to account for transverse flow effects in their modeling, indicating a more complex approach than one-dimensional analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of using Fick's Law for heat transfer, with some advocating for Fourier's Law. There is no consensus on the mathematical formulation of the PDE or the best approach to model the heat flow in the resistor.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their approaches, including assumptions about uniformity in material properties and the dimensionality of the heat flow being modeled. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainty regarding the mathematical treatment of the problem.

jonthebaptist
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I am solving for the flow of heat on a resistor, say it has a cross-section in the x-z plane and is extended along the y-axis. Fick's Law with internal heating is simply
\frac{\partial T}{\partial t}=A\nabla^{2}T+BQ
My PDE text gives Q as power delivered per unit volume. So substituting in the electrical power delivered divided by the differential volume element, I get
\frac{\partial T}{\partial t}=A\nabla^{2}T+B\frac{I^{2}\rho}{dx^{2}dz^{2}}
What I did makes sense to me physically, but I am not sure if it makes sense mathematically as a PDE with a term having differential elements instead of derivatives.
 
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My advice would be to choose a control volume, V and look for the heat entering and leaving this control volume, use some vector analysis and it will give you a sensible differential equations. The PDE you write down is wrong mathematically.
 
Can you really apply Fick's laws to heat? From what I understand, the laws concern concentrations of actual objects. I would think you could measure energy density that way, considering it it also dependent somewhat on position and time.

I would personally use Fourier's Law and other traditional heat transfer equations to measure heat flow.
 
@hunt_mat Thanks for confirming my suspicion about my PDE

@timthereaper I believe Fick's laws were discovered empirically from diffusion experiements, but Asmar's PDE text gives a derivation for a PDE describing heat flow on a rod based on Fourier's law and arrives at Fick's law.

Either way, I notice that COMSOL has a module that models the physics of heat flow on parts with Joules internal heating, so someone has figured this out. I'll think about it a little more and see if I come up with anything...
 
Last edited:
Hmm...I'll have to look at that text. You've piqued my interest.
 
john, the last term in heat conduction equation should be J^2*rho. This is the general form for the local heat production (and you don't need the derivatives). J is the current density (charge per time per area), and rho is the resitivity (resistance*length). However, if the cross section and rho are constant through the wire, then J is uniform everywhere and you can substitute I=J*A. The term becomes I^2*rho/A - no derivatives.
 
My first take was to use J^{2}\rho, but that only works if you are modeling heat flow in the one dimension longitudinal along the resistor, so all transverse flow effects are ignored. I need to account for those effects for what I'm doing, which is why I am taking my infinitesimal volume element to have infinitesimal lengths in all three dimensions.
 

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