Setup for a two spring/two mass system (ODEs)

  • Thread starter Thread starter SithsNGiggles
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Mass Odes System
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a two-spring, two-mass system involving a cart of mass 2 kg and another cart of mass 3 kg, both connected by springs with a constant of k = 1. The problem requires finding the position of the second mass as a function of time after both masses are released from rest at specified initial positions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to set up the equations of motion for the system but expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their force diagrams and equations. Some participants question the signs in the equations and suggest clarifications on the forces acting on each mass.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging in clarifying the setup of the problem, with some guidance provided on the correct formulation of the equations. There is a focus on understanding the forces involved and ensuring the signs in the equations are accurate. The original poster is seeking further clarification on the setup before proceeding with the solution.

Contextual Notes

There is an emphasis on ensuring the correct interpretation of the forces due to the springs, with discussions on how to analyze the system from equilibrium positions. The original poster has indicated a lack of confidence in the initial setup, which is being addressed through collaborative questioning and explanation.

SithsNGiggles
Messages
183
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



Suppose a cart of mass 2 kg is attached by a spring of constant k = 1 to a cart of mass 3 kg, which is attached to the wall by a spring also of k = 1. Suppose the initial position of the first cart is 1 m in the positive direction from the rest position, and the second mass starts at the rest position. The masses are not moving and are let go. Find the position of the second mass as a function of time.

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution



It's been a while since I've taken physics, so I'm a bit lost on the setup for this system. I've attached an image of the scenario. Are my forces (green arrows/text) for each mass correct?

If this is right, then my system of equations is
##\begin{cases}
m_1x_1''=-k_1x_1+k_1x_2\\
m_2x_2''=k_1x_1 + (k_2-k_1)x_2
\end{cases}##

Plugging in the given values, it becomes
##\begin{cases}
2x_1''=-x_1+x_2\\
3x_2''=x_1
\end{cases}##

Or, as a matrix equation,
##\left(\begin{matrix}2&0\\0&3\end{matrix}\right)\vec{x}\;'' = \left(\begin{matrix}-1&1\\1&0\end{matrix}\right)\vec{x}##

Is this all right so far? I'm confident I can solve the system, but not as much about the setup. Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Forgot to attach in first post
 

Attachments

  • two springs masses.png
    two springs masses.png
    3.7 KB · Views: 534
The sign of the k2 in your second equation is wrong. To see this, suppose both masses are at the equilibrium positions. Now if x2 increases, both springs will push back in the same direction. The effects of the springs add; they don't subtract.
 
So I should instead have

SithsNGiggles said:
##\left(\begin{matrix}2&0\\0&3\end{matrix}\right)\vec{x}\;'' = \left(\begin{matrix}-1&1\\1&\color{red}{-2}\end{matrix}\right)\vec{x}##

Is that it?
 
Yes.
 
Thanks, I can definitely handle the solution from here. But could you walk me through the setup again (if you have the time, of course)? I don't really follow.

I have to get to class now, but I'll be sure to check back if you or anyone else could explain.
 
The force on mass 1 due to spring 1 generally has to be either ##k_1(x_2-x_1)## or ##-k_1(x_2-x_1)##. You just have to figure out which one gives the right sign. To do this, look at a simple case. Start off with the masses in their equilibrium positions so that ##x_1=x_2=0##. Now imagine moving mass 1 to the right, which is the positive direction according to your convention, while holding mass 2 stationary. The spring is compressed, so it's going to push mass 1 to the left or in the negative direction. So which expression gives a negative result when ##x_1>0## and ##x_2=0##? That's the one that contributes to the sum of the forces that equals ##m_1 x''_1##. Do a similar analysis for mass 2.

Then move on to spring 2. It's connected only to mass 2, so this time, move mass 2 a little to the right and keep mass 1 at ##x_1=0##. Then analyze the situation the same way.
 
I think I get it now. I'll try out some more problems. Thanks for the break-down!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K