Should NASCAR be taxed for wasting fuel?

[cronxeh]

The only problem is the cost benefit. Consider Toyota Prius - a new car would run you about $20000, and compared to any diesel version of a European car, it will always be cheaper.

Consdering $20k + 50mpg vs $70k + 70 mpg or $500k + 230 mpg I would probably go for $20k + 50 mpg for a few years.. yep.

 

[mattmns]

This reminds me of a joke I once heard on a comedy show. It went something like: "I didn't get NASCAR racing until I met some NASCAR fans. Then I could see how a shiny car going around in circles could fascinate them."

 

[GOD__AM]

The only problem is the cost benefit. Consider Toyota Prius - a new car would run you about $20000, and compared to any diesel version of a European car, it will always be cheaper.

Consdering $20k + 50mpg vs $70k + 70 mpg or $500k + 230 mpg I would probably go for $20k + 50 mpg for a few years.. yep.

And what's your point? Do you really think it costs more money to make a hi mileage diesel than a hi mileage gas engine? As gas prices get higher the difference in your example grows smaller. If everyone stopped buying gas engine cars the price of diesel fuel would climb even more as we consumed less product...

 

[russ_watters]

I'm not a fan of NASCAR per se, but I love motorsports in general. I have a problem with anyone who considers all motor racing to be a "non-sport".

Whether it's a sport or not is utterly irrelevant here. One of the general freedoms on which the US is based is the pursuit of happiness. If pursuing racing (whether watching or participating) makes people happy, then they can - unless it harms those around them, and I think the general consensus is that it doesn't (the 5% seems dubius).

Just a quick off-the-cuff calculation: A big NASCAR race is 500 miles and has 42 cars. At 4mpg (estimate from some googling), that's 5,250 gallons per race. Even if there were a hundred similar races per day in the US, that'd be 525,000 - well short of Fred's 20 million estimate for 5%.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

As for the general argument, all sports are a luxury that should be taxed to the greatest extent possible. This is no different than alcohol, cigarettes, or lottery or gambling winnings. I also think we need to consider creating special taxes for things like parachutes, bikes, rock climbing gear, SCUBA gear, and any other sporting item that relates to costs to the general population. Isn't it fair that people pay for the increased risks and resulting costs [medical and insurance costs, as well as rescue efforts] to all of us that are associated with these activities.

 

[GOD__AM]

As for the general argument, all sports are a luxury that should be taxed to the greatest extent possible. This is no different than alcohol, cigarettes, or lottery or gambling winnings. I also think we need to consider creating special taxes for things like parachutes, bikes, rock climbing gear, SCUBA gear, and any other sporting item that relates to costs to the general population. Isn't it fair that people pay for the increased risks and resulting costs [medical and insurance costs, as well as rescue efforts] to all of us that are associated with these activities.

Wow, with thinking like this we will all be eating soylent green in the near future...You can't be serious.

 

[Kenneth Mann]

NASCAR is annoying enough, without the figure that over 5% of the nation's gasoline supply (a large percentage of what we are forced to import) is wasted on the non-sport of auto racing. It's time we taxed some sensibility into this American-antithetical conspicuous consumption.

What a wonderful idea! - - - but why stop there?

The Airbus A380 - - - will probably fly half empty - - - a waste, get rid of it!
Figure Skating - - - art maybe, but not a sport - - - ban it!
Soccer - - - don't you just love those zero - zero endings?
Rock music - - - performed by amateurs, not musicians - - - time for it to go.
Tattoos - - - body graffiti - - - no need for it to exist.
Sky diving, Mountain climbing, Surfing, Caving, Whitewater excursions - - tie up rescue personnel unnecessarily.
Alcoholic beverages - - - wasteful and sinful - - - must go! Oops, didn't we try that once?
Gambling - - - exploitation of the poor!
Going on vacations - - - non-productive.
Dogs and Cats - - - turn them back to the wild!
Living in houses - - - a total waste - - - small apartments are much more economical!
Extravagant weddings - - - totally excessive!
Reality TV - - - mind numbing!
Beggars - - - How unsightly! Shoot them all!
Flush toilets - - - a total waste of water!
Toilet paper ! - - - - - What's wrong with the hand? It had worked for millennia!
Downloading music and movies - - - unethical! Put an end to it!
Hurricanes - - - Incredibly wasteful! They must go!
SUVs - - - too dangerous - - - they flip over too easily.
Toyota Prius - - - too dangerous - - - it flips ov--- Nah; it's too slow.

What a great idea. let's just get rid of that which we don't like. And to the old Soviet Union we can say "eat your heart out".


KM

 

[GOD__AM]

This thread reminds me of merry old england. /me heads to the Boston Harbor looking for tea.

 

[Curious3141]

...uhhhhh, no. Unless their cars can go 2x the speed of sound or more and they can play "duck, dodge, and hide" while someone shoots guided missiles at them.

Modern F1 cars can easily develop 3.5 lateral gs when cornering. This is a repeated and sustained assault on the axial skeleton, and the neck in particular. F1 races can last more than 70 laps. They have nothing to cushion them from the immense lateral forces other than a headrest, a mandatory HANS (head and neck support) and their own overdeveloped neck musculature. Braking (longitudinal) gs can be up to 5g.

It is true that fighter planes like the F16 can develop 9gs, but experienced pilots very infrequently risk this, because of the physiologic dangers. 2 - 3gs are already considered bad enough because of the damage to the microvasculature of the eye this can cause. Plus fighter pilots have very effective g-suits to cushion them from these forces - formula one drivers have the Nomex suits that mainly protect them from burns.

"Duck and dodge" - do you think there is no skill involved in negotiating a racetrack at speeds of over 200 mph with other cars jostling for position ? Do you think there's no skill involved in avoiding a crash when there's a sudden obstacle in front of you (as in another car spinning or crashing) ? Fighter pilots have tons of electronic aids to warn them of missile lock and electronic countermeasures to foil missiles. It's a fairly slow process, decisions can be taken in seconds rather than the hundredths of seconds expected of decision made by an F1 driver.

Go fast, turn left. AND they shouldn't be TESTING their whatever when they do it. They should already have them before they climb behind the wheel.

Only turn left ? It's obvious your experience of "racing" is limited to NASCAR and maybe Indycar. For me, real racing should include left turns, right turns, short straights, long straights, low speed hairpins and high speed banked corners. The whole works. There is consummate skill involved in learning and taking the correct line around a corner, braking at just the right point, and hitting the apex exactly right. I'm talking about proper circuit racing (or other forms of demanding racing, including rally racing), while you seem to be fixated upon the boring and fairly undemanding oval racing. Before you judge racing, go watch some real racing first.

 

[russ_watters]

As for the general argument, all sports are a luxury that should be taxed to the greatest extent possible. This is no different than alcohol, cigarettes, or lottery or gambling winnings.

Wow - so anything that people might enjoy needs to be taxed? Wow.

Could you explain how that can logically fit with the Constitution?

I also think we need to consider creating special taxes for things like parachutes, bikes, rock climbing gear, SCUBA gear, and any other sporting item that relates to costs to the general population. Isn't it fair that people pay for the increased risks and resulting costs [medical and insurance costs, as well as rescue efforts] to all of us that are associated with these activities.

Well, if this is just about the insurance money, things like scuba diving and skydiving carry their own insurance. My scuba diving will not increase your health insurance costs because your health insurance company does not cover scuba diving accidents.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

When I was looking for stats on fossil fuel consumption for auto racing I actually found a few articles discussing the use of alternative fuels. It reminds me a bit of the book The Differance Engine where people who were interested in making money from racing developed the first engine utilizing petrol instead of steam. It's feasible to think that those in NASCAR may be interested in developing alternative fuel sources that could benefit us all.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Wow - so anything that people might enjoy needs to be taxed? Wow.

Could you explain how that can logically fit with the Constitution? Well, if this is just about the insurance money, things like scuba diving and skydiving carry their own insurance. My scuba diving will not increase your health insurance costs because your health insurance company does not cover scuba diving accidents.

Most of things these already are quite expensive too.
I went skydiving once. One tandum jump cost $120. To take classes and jump on your own cost quite a bit more.

 

[GOD__AM]

When I was looking for stats on fossil fuel consumption for auto racing I actually found a few articles discussing the use of alternative fuels. It reminds me a bit of the book The Differance Engine where people who were interested in making money from racing developed the first engine utilizing petrol instead of steam. It's feasible to think that those in NASCAR may be interested in developing alternative fuel sources that could benefit us all.

Cart and Indy cars have used alcohol for decades, as have certain classes of drag racing and motorcycle racing. Any gas engine can be converted to use alcohol with simple carburation changes resulting in more horse power. Instead of some of you preaching the evils of fossile fuel consumption, maybe you should lead by example.

 

[russ_watters]

Most of things these already are quite expensive too.
I went skydiving once. One tandum jump cost $120. To take classes and jump on your own cost quite a bit more.

I went all the way, baby - I only did one jump, but it was a solo (two instructors next to me, but not attached) freefall from 13,500 feet and I flew and landed my own chute.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Cart and Indy cars have used alcohol for decades, as have certain classes of drag racing and motorcycle racing. Any gas engine can be converted to use alcohol with simple carburation changes resulting in more horse power. Instead of some of you preaching the evils of fossile fuel consumption, maybe you should lead by example.

I'd be all for it if I could afford to do it to my car and have a supply and all. That and be sure that my engine would be capable of taking the new fuel without damaging it too much. Oh and make sure I have a supply off alcohol fuel too.

I went all the way, baby - I only did one jump, but it was a solo (two instructors next to me, but not attached) freefall from 13,500 feet and I flew and landed my own chute.

Mine was a last minute decision. I pretty much had to go tandum. I think I would have preferred solo because landing with a little man strapped to your back really sucks. My tail bone hurt for over a month.

 

[primal schemer]

As for the general argument, all sports are a luxury that should be taxed to the greatest extent possible. This is no different than alcohol, cigarettes, or lottery or gambling winnings. I also think we need to consider creating special taxes for things like parachutes, bikes, rock climbing gear, SCUBA gear, and any other sporting item that relates to costs to the general population. Isn't it fair that people pay for the increased risks and resulting costs [medical and insurance costs, as well as rescue efforts] to all of us that are associated with these activities.

What about the medical costs as a result of lack of exercise. How many people have medical conditions as a result of not exercising? As TheStatutoryApe already said, any danger sports that are out there are usually quite expensive, and insurance is included in the price.

I'm not sure how you can compare drinking alcohol or smoking to taking part in sports.

On a related note, what do people think is more important, physical fitness or mental fitness? Personally I think the two are related, I always notice I get more work done after exercising. If I don't exercise for a few weeks I start to feel tired, stay in bed longer etc. But in terms of a general lifestyle, I'd prefer to be healthy and fit than smart. What do you think??

PS

 

[Echo 6 Sierra]

Before you judge racing, go watch some real racing first.

Eeeeeeazy big fella. How about hanging onto a sidecar with your noggin scraping the ground? I've never done it but it sounds more taxing and dangerous than riding in a car like a sissy. Balloon racing...now there's a sport. Especially if you can shoot flaming arrows at the other racers. On another note, I remember reading somewhere that Major League Baseball doesn't pay some sort of taxes and it began way back in the '30's or something. Anyone else heard of this?

ps: I don't normally drink coffee and I had a double mocha this morning so I can't be held responsible for my actions, especially the sweats, vibrating, and fits of Tourettes. Love ya...call me...mean it...