Should Prisons be turned into Schools, Factories, >

[Philocrat]

That's already been done. See the link http://www.unicor.gov/

As I mentioned, two retail clothing manufacturers that are my clients use prison labor to manufacture their clothing.

Everything philocrat is talking about is already being done.

The Problem with the current System of Administering Justice
(A Response to Evo)

Compensation: who pays it?

Your links suggest that things are getting better, but is this really the case? I have only a few questions to ask and I will look at more later as I become more familiarised with the current systems.

Considerations in Ordering Restitution http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/ovc/publications/bulletins/legalseries/bulletin6/2.html#4
Restitution laws generally set out the elements the court is to consider before it rules on restitution. Alaska law provides that “n determining the amount and method of payment of restitution, the court shall take into account the: 1) public policy that favors requiring criminals to compensate for damages and injury to their victims; and 2) financial burden placed on the victim and those who provide services to the victim and other persons injured by the offense as a result of the criminal conduct of the defendant.”

Absolutely, we must welcome this, but regardless of all the outward considerations, in the end the overall outcome must be such that the fundamental principle of EQUITY is rigorously upheld. The society must benefit. The Victim must benefit. And the offender must not come out feeling worse off. If you turn prisons to proper schools, factories, hospitals and humanitarian centres combined, this must be administered in such a way that everyone clearly benefits, which I predict would systematically in the long run minimise, if not wholly eradicate, the reason to offend or commit crime. One of the serious issues that this must help eliminate is the general ‘SENSE OF VENGEANCE AND RETRIBUTION’ that traditionally plagues the system.

Federal Prison Industries http://www.bop.gov/ievpg/iev.html#educ
Federal Prison Industries (FPI) is a correctional program operated by the BOP. Created by Federal statute in 1934, it operates as a wholly-owned Government corporation under the trade name UNICOR. FPI trains and employs Federal inmates in diversified work programs and ensures that inmates are productively occupied while incarcerated in the Federal prison system. For many inmates, FPI symbolizes a unique chance to learn about the real world - its work opportunities, responsibilities, and rewards. At the end of Fiscal Year 2003, FPI employed 20,274 inmates (19 percent of the BOP's eligible inmate population).

This is undisputedly a very good step in the right direction if the practiced system of apportionment used meets the standards of EQUITY. Evo, out of curiosity, how were the enumerations and earnings from such voluminous employments apportioned? Have you any substantial data or statistics to enlighten us further?

QUESTION: If this works well in one part of the society, why is it not widespread? Why not spread this to the rest of the society?

Since FPI does not receive appropriated congressional funds to sustain its operations, it relies only upon the sale of its products and services to remain a self-sustaining correctional program. The seven business groups that produce more than 90 products and services are Clothing and Textiles, Electronics, Fleet Management, Industrial Products, Office Furniture, Recycling, and Services. At the end of Fiscal Year 2003, FPI operated 100 factories.

This substantially comes close to what I had in mind. In fact, the very fact that the business self-sustains suggests that the proposal does have some chance of being successful. The institution concerned should strive to sustain it and keep it going (even at the expense of occasional governmental subsidies), and should allow its efforts, throughput and value to multiply.

NOTE: Admittedly, the links point us to very serious initiatives and progressive programmes being put in place in some countries (some parts of America especially), but equally it must be noted and appreciated that, these are just short-term solutions, if they are ever achievable and sustainable in practice in the first place. They do not deal with the long-term solution to the question: ‘WHY DO PEOPLE OFFEND OR COMMIT CRIME? The long-term solutions to this question are somewhat beneath nature itself. If at all long-term solutions to the problem can be found, we may have to consult science and philosophy for deeper enlightenment. Quite correctly and very necessarily, we may have to combine the ‘QUEST FOR EQUITABLE SHORT-TERM SOLUTIONS’ with the ‘QUEST FOR EQUITABLE LONG-TERM SOLUTIONS’ and action both in a positive way.

 

[wasteofo2]

Philocrat, you've really lost me, what on Earth are you talking about?

You're just talking about abstract ideas and grand concepts of morality, why? Who are you trying to convince, and why? You're really doing a horrible job of convincing anyone of your points, you're just talking like such a blithering philisopher wannabe that you're not making any sense, nor any real points.

And why do you keep talking totally in bold? That's just annoying.

 

[wasteofo2]

That's already been done. See the link http://www.unicor.gov/

As I mentioned, two retail clothing manufacturers that are my clients use prison labor to manufacture their clothing.

Everything philocrat is talking about is already being done.

Well ain't that grand!

 

[Philocrat]

Philocrat, you've really lost me, what on Earth are you talking about?

You're just talking about abstract ideas and grand concepts of morality, why? Who are you trying to convince, and why? You're really doing a horrible job of convincing anyone of your points, you're just talking like such a blithering philisopher wannabe that you're not making any sense, nor any real points.

What I am saying does not necessarily presuppose morality. Well, I am suggesting that the surface-level solutions, however good they may outwardly appear, may not fully resolve the problem. Science and philosophy may intervene to clarify things further. And a more chilling aspect of this is that, what we may find in this process may very well triger actions that adversely intervene with our normal sense of reality. To ceate long lasting solutions to the problems underlying 'SELF-CONTROL' and 'COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY', the human reality may be intervened with at the STRUCTURAL UNDERLYING LEVEL beneath nature.


Please pardon me, I am not trying to undermine your sense of normality. Don't take an offence on this.

And why do you keep talking totally in bold? That's just annoying.

Well, I do this a lot. I tend to color-code my opinions. Don't ask me to start decoding them now. I won't. Sorry that this annoys you.

 

[Loren Booda]

Riker's Island prison and the Los Angeles County jail are the largest de facto mental hospitals in the U.S.

 

[Philocrat]

Riker's Island prison and the Los Angeles County jail are the largest de facto mental hospitals in the U.S.

Do events there meet the EQUITY standards, locally, if not globally? Has anyone there been cured before and re-meployed in the hospital or factory services? Do you have more information about this? Give us an idea of how things are in there...point us to some hard facts!

 

[Loren Booda]

Out of sight, out of mind!

 

[Philocrat]

Out of sight, out of mind!

Then why bother telling us about it?

 

[Loren Booda]

The criminal justice system is the channel in which many people with mental illness find themselves, a substitute for hospitals of old. In many jurisdictions nowadays the only way to commit people - ironically because their rights deny them the medical route if they refuse, unless the person poses a danger to themselves or the public - is to arrest them for a minor infraction, then hold them indefinitely with or without medicine. Can you imagine being psychotic and rather than be admitted to a clinic, getting gang-banged, raped or addicted in prison? Many take their own life under such duress.

 

[Philocrat]

I was thinking of the hospital system that really cures and rehabilitates the curable cases and equitably accommodates the uncurable ones to the very last moment. What you are describing functions to the contrary, if true.

 

[Philocrat]

The GREATEST price in a civil society is SENSE OF PURPOSE...and I suspect that high rate of suicide in and outside prisons may have a close link to the denial of this!