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Should you be fired for being a, irresistible attraction?

  1. Dec 22, 2012 #1

    nsaspook

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    Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/12/21/iowa-court-bosses-can-fire-irresistible-workers/

    It seems a strange reason to fire someone even if it's legal. People have been fired at Hooters for being unattractive but they know the rules when they are hired. What if she was so unattractive he payed her more than others doing the same job for keeping his marriage closer.
     
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  3. Dec 22, 2012 #2

    Evo

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    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    He fired her because his wife probably threatened to take him for every penney he had and kill his practice. Family values, right.

    Where were his family values when he said
    The dental assistants in my dentists' office wear long "lab coats".

    WHAT???
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  4. Dec 22, 2012 #3

    I like Serena

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    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    Interesting!

    Something I've never thought about before.
    I have always just accepted as a fact of life that attractive women have it easier.
    Apparently the wives of men involved also have a say in the matter and that say is accepted unanimously in court.
     
  5. Dec 22, 2012 #4

    OmCheeto

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    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    It's no wonder I'm messed up.

    I was 17 when this came out

    It might be something only a man can understand. God knows that either I exited, they exited, or inappropriate behavior would have ensued.

    Or, in the words of Lord Attenbourough;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7Z5k1_LgkE

    "it emits its mighty mating call"

    Mew!

    I side with the all male justices... Sexy shoes should not be allowed in the workplace.
     
  6. Dec 22, 2012 #5

    Choppy

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    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    I can't help, but wonder if this is one of those cases where there's a great deal of information lost between the court ruling and the headlines.

    It would seem after reading the article that the former employee attempted a lawsuit based specifically on gender discrimination and the court was unable to find that this was a case of gender discrimination. Had she presented it as a sexual harassment challenge it may have gone differently. That first quote that Evo has above would suggest a pretty strong case for harassment to me.
     
  7. Dec 22, 2012 #6

    Pengwuino

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    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    No wonder I can't get a job.
     
  8. Dec 22, 2012 #7
    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    http://www.drbicuspid.com/index.aspx?sec=sup&sub=pmt&pag=dis&ItemID=312289&wf=33

    Wow it took him ten years to notice.:biggrin:
     
  9. Dec 22, 2012 #8

    Evo

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  10. Dec 23, 2012 #9
    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?


    I'm sure you are gorgeous!
     
  11. Dec 23, 2012 #10
    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?


    I read about this article he told her that if you see my pants bulge that means your outfit is too sexy. What type of boss says that? Also I almost went to school to be a dental assistant, I decided against it cause something about sticking my fingers in people's mouths grossed me out, and it just didn't seem right. Anywho when I took a tour of the school and I saw the dental assisting students, they were all wearing scrubs, and white lab coats. There wasn't much chance to be sexy in those
     
  12. Dec 23, 2012 #11

    BobG

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    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    Yes, the content of the text messages between the dentist and the assistant are missing. Whatever they may have said to each other in the messages may have been:

    1) the normal things an employer and employee would talk to each other about after work, while each is home with their own families.

    2) the normal things friends talk to each other about, including asking and giving advice on how to handle problems in each other's families. Almost always not a great idea when you're employer/employee, and often not a good idea when you're just friends of the opposite sex (do you really want her asking some other guy advice about how to handle her sex life with you?)

    For example, from the original article: "He also once allegedly remarked about her infrequent sex life by saying, “that’s like having a Lamborghini in the garage and never driving it.” Why in the world would an employer know how often his employee has sex with her husband?


    3) or, worst case scenario, exchanging messages that would suggest a very intimate relationship between the dentist and assistant.

    It's good PR for the dental assistant and her lawyer to focus on the employer's sexual attraction to her, but it was the text messages that raised red flags with the wife - and those are only referenced indirectly in the articles.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  13. Dec 23, 2012 #12

    Vanadium 50

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    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    I hate to throw facts into this mix, especially since many people's minds are made up, but I would encourage you to read the decision: http://www.iowacourts.gov/Supreme_Court/Recent_Opinions/20121221/11-1857.pdf [Broken]

    First, the issue is not whether Melissa Nelson was treated unfairly. The court concludes:

    And earlier:

    The suit was on the basis of sex discrimination and equal opportunity.

    Nelson's argument had several points, but I find two particularly interesting. The first was a sine qua non argument. Nelson argued that had she not been a woman, the concern on the part of the wife would not have occurred, and therefore it was indirectly because she was a member of a protected class. The court rejected this argument, noting a) that another woman was hired as Nelson's replacement, and b) federal case law exists on this, but hinted that they might have accepted it had Mrs. Knight told her husband that he couldn't hire any women.

    The second one asks the question "if Dr. Knight would have been liable to Nelson for sexually harassing her, should he be able to avoid liability for terminating her out of fear that he was going to harass her?" The court answered this one in the affirmative, arguing that the alternative is to hold people liable for acts that they have not committed, but only might commit in the future.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2017
  14. Dec 23, 2012 #13

    Danger

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    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    My dentist is an extremely attractive lady, young enough to be my granddaughter. I joked with her a bit last week while she was rebuilding a broken tooth, but I'm smart enough to know who controls the anesthetic.

    edit: I'm amazed that neither her nor the equally young and attractive assistant were aware of the use of a dental dam as a sexual device until I mentioned it. They probably still don't know the details, since I didn't offer them.

    edit #2: Back on track as per the OP: If the guy has trouble controlling the trouser eel based upon his assistant's clothing, he should set forth a dress code before the fact. The owner of a strip bar is guilty if he assaults a naked woman who works for him. Being alluring is the basis of her job. Some women who apply for any job expect that to be part of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2012
  15. Dec 23, 2012 #14
    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    Sigh, I already made my mind up and now you come here with your "unbiased logic." -_-
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2017
  16. Dec 23, 2012 #15

    OmCheeto

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    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    One of the long time mentors started a thread quite a while ago regarding a SCOTUS decision. I of course jumped in and, based on media hype and gobbledy goop, started re-spewing the gobbledy goop.

    I later read the court decision, seemed like a thousand pages long, and decided what we were arguing about had absolutely nothing to do with the case.

    I of course slyly slinked out of the thread, never acknowledging my complicity in spreading silliness.



    ---------------------
    That was a good thread. OMG! I outed myself as a kook that day! Why on earth am I still here?
    "I don't believe in Asimov's 'positronic brain' any more than I believe in putting Cheeze Whiz on a pizza, but he inspired me to seek out scientific facts."... Danger
    I must not have known how to quote people in my sig back then... "Cheeze Whiz on a pizza"... hmmm....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2017
  17. Dec 25, 2012 #16
    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    Well, it looks like she LOST in court today.

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20121222/NEWS01/312220050/-1/COUPON/Iowa-Supreme-Court-Firing-attractive-worker-not-harassment?nclick_check=1 [Broken]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2017
  18. Dec 25, 2012 #17
    Re: Should you be fired for being a, “irresistible attraction”?

    I think the dentist and his wife seem like nutcases. Don't understand why the assistant didn't quit, I wouldn't want to work at a place like that.
     
  19. Jul 13, 2013 #18

    MarneMath

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