Show that (du/dv)t=T(dp/dT)v-p - please explain

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on deriving the equation (du/dv)T = T(dp/dT)v - p using thermodynamic principles. The participants utilize the relation Tds = du + pdv and apply Maxwell's relations to manipulate the equations. Key steps include substituting differentials and simplifying terms, particularly addressing the term (du/dT)v dT/dv. The correct approach involves recognizing that this term must equal zero under specific conditions, leading to the final expression.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of thermodynamic relations, specifically Tds = du + pdv.
  • Familiarity with Maxwell relations in thermodynamics.
  • Knowledge of partial derivatives and their application in thermodynamic equations.
  • Ability to manipulate and rearrange equations involving differentials.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of Maxwell relations in thermodynamics.
  • Learn about the implications of the Tds relation in thermodynamic processes.
  • Explore the concept of partial derivatives in the context of thermodynamic variables.
  • Investigate the significance of the term (du/dT)v and conditions under which it equals zero.
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in thermodynamics, particularly those studying or working with equations of state and thermodynamic properties. This discussion is beneficial for anyone looking to deepen their understanding of energy differentials and Maxwell's relations.

ConstantinL
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Homework Statement


Show that (du/dv)T = T(dp/dt)v - p

Homework Equations


Using Tds = du + pdv and a Maxwell relation

The Attempt at a Solution


I've solved the problem, but I'm not entirely sure my method is correct.

Tds = du + pdv ---> du = Tds - Pdv

- Using dF=(dF/dx)ydx +(dF/dy)xdy
du=(du/dT)v+(du/dv)Tdv

- Therefore Tds - Pdv = (du/dT)v+(du/dv)Tdv

- Divide by dv:
(du/dT)vdT/dv + (du/dv)T = T(ds/dv)T - p

Now, to get the right answer, this term:

(du/dT)vdT/dv

must equal zero, but I'm not sure why - please can somebody explain?


Then you simply insert Maxwell relation -(ds/dv)T = -(dp/dT)v
and rearrange to get the correct answer.

Many thanks for any help!
 
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You should have started out by substituting $$dS=\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial T}\right)_VdT+\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right)_TdV$$
 
Chestermiller said:
You should have started out by substituting $$dS=\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial T}\right)_VdT+\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right)_TdV$$

Thanks for your help. I still get to a similar problem unfortunately. I get to here:

(ds/dT)vdT/dv + (ds/dv)T = (du/dv)T1/T + p/T

How do I get ride of the (ds/dT)vdT/dv term?

Many thanks!
 
ConstantinL said:
Thanks for your help. I still get to a similar problem unfortunately. I get to here:

(ds/dT)vdT/dv + (ds/dv)T = (du/dv)T1/T + p/T

How do I get ride of the (ds/dT)vdT/dv term?

Many thanks!
T(ds/dT)vdT + T(ds/dv)TdV = (du/dv)TdV+(du/dT)VdT + pdV
Collect factors of dV and dT.
 

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