Show That $F(S)$ Is the Smallest Subfield of $K$

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the subset $F(S)$ of a field $K$, specifically whether $F(S)$ is a subfield of $K$ and the smallest subfield containing a subfield $F$ and a non-empty subset $S$ of $K$. Participants explore the definitions and implications of $F(S)$, including its construction from polynomials and elements of $S$.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that $F(S)$ is a subring of $K$ and demonstrate closure under addition and multiplication.
  • It is claimed that $F(S)$ is an integral domain and thus a subfield of $K$, as every non-zero element has an inverse.
  • Participants discuss the condition that if $F \cup S \subseteq E$, then $F(S) \subseteq E$, based on the form of elements in $F(S)$.
  • One participant questions the assumption that $f(s_1, \dots , s_n)$ and $g(s_1, \dots , s_n)$ belong to $F \cup S$, raising uncertainty about the relationship between the coefficients of the polynomials and the elements of $S$.
  • Another participant expresses agreement with the previous claims, indicating some level of consensus on the correctness of the earlier arguments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

While there is some agreement on the properties of $F(S)$ as a subfield, there remains uncertainty regarding the inclusion of polynomial evaluations in $F \cup S$, indicating that the discussion is not fully resolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarification on the relationship between the coefficients of the polynomials and the elements of the set $S$, which remains unresolved.

mathmari
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Hey! :o

Let $F$ be a subfield of the field $K$ and $S$ a non-empty subset (not necessarily, subfield) of $K$, finite or infinite. Let $F(S)$ be the subset of $K$ that is defined as follows:
An element $u\in K$ is in $F(S)$ iff there are finitely many elements of $S$, say $s_1, \dots , s_n$, and polynomials with $n$ variables $f,g\in F[x_1, \dots , x_n]$, with $g(s_1, \dots , s_n)\neq 0$, so that $u=f(s_1, \dots , s_n)/g(s_1, \dots , s_n)$.

I want to show that $F(S)$ is a subfield of $K$ and even the smallest subfield of $K$, that contains $F$ and $S$. So, if $E$ is the subfield of $K$ and $F\cup S\subseteq E$, then $F(S)\subseteq E$. I have done the following:

$F(S)$ is a subring of $K$ :

We have that $a,b\in F(S)$ then $a=\frac{f_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)}$ and $b=\frac{f_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)}$.
Then $a\cdot b=\frac{f_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)f_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)g_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)}\in F(S)$ and $a-b=\frac{f_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)g_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)-f_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)g_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)g_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)}\in F(S)$.

Since $K$ is a field, it is also an integral domain and since $F(S)$ is a subring of $K$, $F(S)$ is also an integral domain.

We have that $F(S)$ is a subfield of $K$, since it is an integral domain and for each non-zero element $u\in F(S)$, $u=\frac{f(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g(s_1, \dots , s_n)}$ there is its inverse, $u^{-1}=\frac{g(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{f(s_1, \dots , s_n)}$.
Let $E$ a subfield of $K$ and $F\cup S\subseteq E$.
The elements of $F(S)$ are of the form $\frac{f(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g(s_1, \dots , s_n)}$. Since $F\cup S\subseteq E$ we have that $f(s_1, \dots , s_n)\in E$ and $g(s_1, \dots , s_n)\in E$. Since $E$ is a field we have that $\frac{f(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g(s_1, \dots , s_n)}\in E$. Therefore, $F(S)\subseteq E$. Is everything correct? Could I improve something? (Wondering)
 
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mathmari said:
Hey! :o

Let $F$ be a subfield of the field $K$ and $S$ a non-empty subset (not necessarily, subfield) of $K$, finite or infinite. Let $F(S)$ be the subset of $K$ that is defined as follows:
An element $u\in K$ is in $F(S)$ iff there are finitely many elements of $S$, say $s_1, \dots , s_n$, and polynomials with $n$ variables $f,g\in F[x_1, \dots , x_n]$, with $g(s_1, \dots , s_n)\neq 0$, so that $u=f(s_1, \dots , s_n)/g(s_1, \dots , s_n)$.

I want to show that $F(S)$ is a subfield of $K$ and even the smallest subfield of $K$, that contains $F$ and $S$. So, if $E$ is the subfield of $K$ and $F\cup S\subseteq E$, then $F(S)\subseteq E$. I have done the following:

$F(S)$ is a subring of $K$ :

We have that $a,b\in F(S)$ then $a=\frac{f_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)}$ and $b=\frac{f_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)}$.
Then $a\cdot b=\frac{f_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)f_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)g_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)}\in F(S)$ and $a-b=\frac{f_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)g_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)-f_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)g_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g_1(s_1, \dots , s_n)g_2(s_1, \dots , s_n)}\in F(S)$.

Since $K$ is a field, it is also an integral domain and since $F(S)$ is a subring of $K$, $F(S)$ is also an integral domain.

We have that $F(S)$ is a subfield of $K$, since it is an integral domain and for each non-zero element $u\in F(S)$, $u=\frac{f(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g(s_1, \dots , s_n)}$ there is its inverse, $u^{-1}=\frac{g(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{f(s_1, \dots , s_n)}$.
Let $E$ a subfield of $K$ and $F\cup S\subseteq E$.
The elements of $F(S)$ are of the form $\frac{f(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g(s_1, \dots , s_n)}$. Since $F\cup S\subseteq E$ we have that $f(s_1, \dots , s_n)\in E$ and $g(s_1, \dots , s_n)\in E$. Since $E$ is a field we have that $\frac{f(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g(s_1, \dots , s_n)}\in E$. Therefore, $F(S)\subseteq E$. Is everything correct? Could I improve something? (Wondering)
This seems fine to me.
 
mathmari said:
Let $E$ a subfield of $K$ and $F\cup S\subseteq E$.
The elements of $F(S)$ are of the form $\frac{f(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g(s_1, \dots , s_n)}$. Since $F\cup S\subseteq E$ we have that $f(s_1, \dots , s_n)\in E$ and $g(s_1, \dots , s_n)\in E$. Since $E$ is a field we have that $\frac{f(s_1, \dots , s_n)}{g(s_1, \dots , s_n)}\in E$. Therefore, $F(S)\subseteq E$.

I thought about it again and I got stuck right now...
Why do we have that $f(s_1, \dots , s_n), g(s_1, \dots , s_n) \in F\cup S$ ?
$f(s_1, \dots , s_n), g(s_1, \dots , s_n)$ are polynomials with coefficients in $F$. Are the variables then elements of $S$ ? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
Why do we have that $f(s_1, \dots , s_n), g(s_1, \dots , s_n) \in F\cup S$ ?

Or doesn't it stand? (Wondering)
 
caffeinemachine said:
This seems fine to me.

Thank you! (Yes)
 

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