Show that $p(x)|f(x)$: Proving the Divisibility

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter mathmari
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that if a polynomial $f(x)$ in $K[x]$ has a root $\rho$ that is also a root of an irreducible polynomial $p(x)$ in $K[x]$, then $p(x)$ divides $f(x)$. The participants explore concepts related to minimal polynomials, irreducibility, and polynomial division.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose using the division algorithm to express $f(x)$ in terms of $p(x)$ and a remainder $r(x)$, leading to the condition $r(\rho) = 0$.
  • Others suggest considering the minimal polynomial $m(x)$ of $\rho$ over $K$, noting that $m(\rho) = p(\rho) = 0$ and $\deg m \leq \deg p$.
  • There is a discussion about showing that $m(x)$ divides $p(x)$, with participants exploring the implications of irreducibility and the properties of minimal polynomials.
  • Some participants question why $r(x)$ cannot be non-zero, leading to a contradiction based on the degrees of the polynomials involved.
  • There is a clarification that in a ring $R$, an element is irreducible if it cannot be factored into non-unit elements, with a focus on the units of $K[x]$ being constant elements from $K$.
  • Participants note that if $p(x) = a(x)m(x)$, then $a(x)$ must be a unit due to the irreducibility of $p(x)$. This leads to the conclusion that $m(x)$ divides $f(x)$.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the properties of minimal polynomials and the implications of irreducibility, but there are ongoing questions and uncertainties about specific steps in the proof and the reasoning behind certain conclusions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the implications of irreducibility and the definitions of units in the context of polynomial rings. There are also unresolved questions about the conditions under which $m(x)$ divides $f(x)$ and the reasoning behind certain claims.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers interested in abstract algebra, particularly in understanding polynomial divisibility, minimal polynomials, and the properties of irreducible polynomials in field extensions.

mathmari
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
4,984
Reaction score
7
Hey! :o

Let $K$ be a field, $p(x)\in K[x]$ irreducible and $L$ an extension of $K$, that contains the root $\rho$ of $p(x)$.
Let $f(x)\in K[x]$ has also the root $\rho$.
I want to show that $p(x)\mid f(x)$.

I have done the following:

Let $f(x)=g(x)p(x)+r(x)$, where $g(x), r(x)\in K[x]$ and $\deg r(x)<\deg p(x)$.
For $x=\rho$ we have that $$f(\rho)=g(\rho)p(\rho)+r(\rho) \Rightarrow r(\rho)=0$$

Does this help? (Wondering)

How could we continue? (Wondering)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Suppose $m(x)$ is the minimal polynomial of $\rho$ over $K$.

Show $m|p$, then apply what you have shown.
 
Deveno said:
Suppose $m(x)$ is the minimal polynomial of $\rho$ over $K$.

Show $m|p$, then apply what you have shown.

The minimal polynomial $m(x)$ of $\rho$ is the monic polynomial of least degree among all polynomials in $K[x]$ having $\rho$ as a root. So, we have that $m(\rho)=p(\rho)=0$ and $\deg m\leq \deg p$.
How exactly can we show that $m\mid p$ ? Could you give me some hints? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
The minimal polynomial $m(x)$ of $\rho$ is the monic polynomial of least degree among all polynomials in $K[x]$ having $\rho$ as a root. So, we have that $m(\rho)=p(\rho)=0$ and $\deg m\leq \deg p$.
How exactly can we show that $m\mid p$ ? Could you give me some hints? (Wondering)

Write $p(x) = q(x)m(x) + r(x)$, as before. Then:

$0 = p(\rho) = q(\rho)m(\rho) + r(\rho) = q(\rho)\cdot 0 + r(\rho) = r(\rho)$. Why can we not have $r(x) \neq 0$?

Now, $p$ is irreducible, so...
 
Deveno said:
Write $p(x) = q(x)m(x) + r(x)$, as before. Then:

$0 = p(\rho) = q(\rho)m(\rho) + r(\rho) = q(\rho)\cdot 0 + r(\rho) = r(\rho)$. Why can we not have $r(x) \neq 0$?

Suppose that $r(x)\neq 0$.

From the eucildean division, we have that $\deg r<\deg m$.

We have that $m(x)$ is the monic polynomial of least degree among all polynomials in $K[x]$ having $\rho$ as a root. So $\deg m\leq \deg r$. A contradiction.

Therefore, it must be $r(x)=0$. So, $p(x)=q(x)m(x)\Rightarrow m(x)\mid p(x)$.

Is this correct? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
Suppose that $r(x)\neq 0$.

From the eucildean division, we have that $\deg r<\deg m$.

We have that $m(x)$ is the monic polynomial of least degree among all polynomials in $K[x]$ having $\rho$ as a root. So $\deg m\leq \deg r$. A contradiction.

Therefore, it must be $r(x)=0$. So, $p(x)=q(x)m(x)\Rightarrow m(x)\mid p(x)$.

Is this correct? (Wondering)

Indeed, in fact $m(x)$ divides any polynomial having $\rho$ as a root. Now, finish it up...
 
Deveno said:
Now, $p$ is irreducible, so...

How can we use this fact? (Wondering)
 
What kind of factors do irreducible polynomials have?
 
Deveno said:
What kind of factors do irreducible polynomials have?

Just the polynomials themselves, or not? (Wondering)
 
  • #10
In a ring $R$, we say that $a \in R$ is irreducible if:

$a = bc \implies b$ or $c$ is a unit.

What are the units of $K[x]$?
 
  • #11
Deveno said:
In a ring $R$, we say that $a \in R$ is irreducible if:

$a = bc \implies b$ or $c$ is a unit.

What are the units of $K[x]$?

The units of $K[x]$ are the constant elements of $K[x]$ that are units of $K$, or not? (Wondering)
 
  • #12
mathmari said:
The units of $K[x]$ are the constant elements of $K[x]$ that are units of $K$, or not? (Wondering)

Yes, that is correct.

So we know the following:

1. $m(x)|p(x)$

2. If $p(x) = a(x)m(x)$, then $a(x)$ is a unit, since $p$ is irreducible.

3. The units of $K[x]$ are the elements of $K^{\ast}$.

4. $m(x)|f(x)$
 
  • #13
Deveno said:
2. If $p(x) = a(x)m(x)$, then $a(x)$ is a unit, since $p$ is irreducible.

Why is then $a(x)$ a unit and not $m(x)$ ? (Wondering)
Deveno said:
4. $m(x)|f(x)$

Why does this hold? (Wondering) I got stuck right now...
 

Similar threads

Replies
48
Views
5K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K