Show that you can distribute powers to commuting elements

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves proving that if two elements, ##a## and ##b##, commute in a group ##G##, then the equation ##(ab)^n = a^nb^n## holds for all integers ##n##. The discussion centers around the validity of various approaches to this proof, including the use of induction and the necessity of proving certain lemmas.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the necessity of proving lemmas related to the commutation of inverses and the implications of proving the statement for non-negative integers. There is also a consideration of whether the proof should explicitly address negative integers or if it can be inferred from the positive case.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants exploring different proof strategies and questioning the completeness of the original poster's argument. Some suggest that proving the statement for non-negative integers may suffice, while others emphasize the importance of clarity in the proof process.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the proof is specifically for commuting elements and question whether the argument holds in a broader context of all elements in the group.

Mr Davis 97
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Homework Statement


If ##a## and ##b## are commuting elements of ##G##, prove that ##(ab)^n = a^nb^n## for all ##n \in \mathbb{Z}##.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


We prove two lemmas:
1) If ##a## and ##b## commute, then so do their inverses: ##ab=ba \implies (ab)^{-1} = (ba)^{-1} \implies b^{-1}a^{-1} = a^{-1}b^{-1}##.

2) If ##a## and ##b## commute, then ##b^n a = ab^n##: Base case is trivial. Suppose for some ##k## we have ##b^ka = ab^k##. Then ##b^{k+1}a = bb^ka = bab^k = abb^k = ab^{k+1}##.

Now to the actual result.

Clearly ##(ab)^0 = a^0b^0##. So first we prove the result for the positive integers, by induction. The base case is trivial. Suppose for some ##k \in \mathbb{Z}^+## we have ##(ab)^k = a^kb^k##. Then ##(ab)^{k+1} = (ab)^k(ab) = a^kb^kab = a^kab^kb = a^{k+1}b^{k+1}##.

Now we prove the result for negative integers. ##(ab)^{-n} = (b^{-1}a^{-1})^n = (a^{-1}b^{-1})^n = (a^{-1})^n(b^{-1})^n = a^{-n}b^{-n}##.
Does this argument work? Were the lemmas really necessary or could I have assumed they held since their proofs are trivial?
 
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Mr Davis 97 said:
since their proofs are trivial?
So is the whole statement you have to show. Better to show it explicitly.
 
There is another argument, why you will not need to prove the negative ones explicitly: If you prove the statement for all ##n \in \mathbb{N}_0## and for all ##a,b \in G##, then you have also proven it for inverse elements. This is in words what you have written.

To do it by induction is a very formal way to prove it. In cases like the above, some dots will equally be acceptable, although from a logical point of view certainly not sufficient. But with the dots, every reader knows how the induction goes.
 
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fresh_42 said:
There is another argument, why you will not need to prove the negative ones explicitly: If you prove the statement for all ##n \in \mathbb{N}_0## and for all ##a,b \in G##, then you have also proven it for inverse elements. This is in words what you have written.

To do it by induction is a very formal way to prove it. In cases like the above, some dots will equally be acceptable, although from a logical point of view certainly not sufficient. But with the dots, every reader knows how the induction goes.
But isn't it the case that I am not proving for all ##a,b \in G##, rather just in the case ##a,b## commute?
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
But isn't it the case that I am not proving for all ##a,b \in G##, rather just in the case ##a,b## commute?
Yes, sure. But that doesn't change by taking the inverses: they commutate if and only if ##a## and ##b## do.
 
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another approach, that is of course closely related, is to show that commuting of ##a## and ##b## gives you

##ab^{-1} = b^{-1}a## (and ditto for ##ba^{-1} = a^{-1}b##),
from here you can derive all the results you want by the ability to 'multiply by 1' (identity)
 

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