Showing Sequences Converge/Diverge

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around methods for determining the convergence or divergence of sequences, particularly focusing on the use of limits and comparison theorems. Participants explore various approaches and raise questions about the necessity and sufficiency of limits in establishing convergence.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the difficulty in showing whether a sequence is convergent or divergent without using limits or comparison theorems, citing a specific example that was initially misjudged.
  • Another participant reiterates the expression for the sequence and questions the limit of the expression, implying that understanding the limit is crucial for determining convergence.
  • A participant asks whether limits are the only method for establishing convergence and points out that some textbooks first inquire about convergence before asking for limit evaluation.
  • It is mentioned that if the limit of a sequence exists, then it is convergent, but this does not clarify the methods for proving convergence.
  • A later reply discusses the necessity of proving convergence through properties such as monotonicity and boundedness, using a specific sequence as an example to illustrate this point.
  • Another participant brings up the relevance of convergence in the context of complex analysis and improper integrals, suggesting that understanding convergence is important for broader applications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty about whether limits are the sole method for determining convergence, with some suggesting alternative approaches while others emphasize the importance of limits. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best methods for proving convergence.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various mathematical contexts, such as real analysis and complex analysis, where convergence plays a critical role, but do not resolve the specific methods or definitions involved.

ZCohen
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I have had some introduction to set theory and have gone through calculus in a theoretical manner up through first and second order differential equations. However, we are now working on sequences (and series, but I find series to be less of a problem). There doesn't seem to be an easy way to go about showing whether a sequence is convergent or divergent other than using comparison theorems or actually evaluating a limit.

(comparison theorems i.e. xb = little-o (eax) ; a,b > 0)

Is there any way that I am overlooking to evaluate the convergence of sequences?
My question arose when considering the problem

{f(n)} = n2 / (n+1) - (n2 + 1) / n ,

which I thought to converge to 0 while it actually converges to -1.
 
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$$f(n)=\frac{n^2}{n+1}-\frac{n^2+1}{n}= \frac{-n^2-n-1}{n^2+n} $$

Then what is the limit of the expression ?
 
ZaidAlyafey said:
$$f(n)=\frac{n^2}{n+1}-\frac{n^2+1}{n}= \frac{-n^2-n-1}{n^2+n} $$

Then what is the limit of the expression ?
So this leads me to ask, is a limit the only method of determining convergence of a sequence? And if so, why do some books (in my experience) ask first if a sequence is convergent then ask for the evaluation of the limit?
 
ZCohen said:
So this leads me to ask, is a limit the only method of determining convergence of a sequence? And if so, why do some books (in my experience) ask first if a sequence is convergent then ask for the evaluation of the limit?

If the limit of a sequence exits , then it is convergent.

- - - Updated - - -

In real analysis , you might be asked prove that the sequence is convergent then you can use the definition without needing to find the limit.
 
ZCohen said:
So this leads me to ask, is a limit the only method of determining convergence of a sequence? And if so, why do some books (in my experience) ask first if a sequence is convergent then ask for the evaluation of the limit?

We need to know that technique. Imagine you have the sequence $a_{n+1}=\sqrt{6+a_n},\;a_1=0$ and we are not interested in an explicit formula for $a_n$ (or we can't find it). If the sequence has a limit $L$, then, $L=\sqrt{6+L}$ and solving the equation we get $L=3$ or $L=-2$, so necessarily $L=3$ because $a_n\geq 0$ for all $n$.

We have not yet proved that $a_n$ is convergent. If we prove (for example) that the sequence is increasing and bounded above, then we can assure that the limit is $L=3$.

Also, in Complex Analysis we sometimes need to kow if an improper real integral is previously convergent because in that case, is equal to its Cauchy principal value ... etc. (Perhaps you'll cover this in the future).
 

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