Significance of the solution of the Euler-Lagrange equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the significance of the solution to the Euler-Lagrange equation in the context of Lagrangian mechanics, specifically applied to a simple pendulum. Participants explore the formulation of the Lagrangian and the resulting equations of motion, questioning the correctness of the Lagrangian used and its implications.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the significance of the Euler-Lagrange equation's solution for a simple pendulum, questioning what is being solved for.
  • Another participant suggests that the initial Lagrangian presented may be incorrect, proposing an alternative formulation and deriving the equations of motion from it.
  • A subsequent post acknowledges the potential error in the Lagrangian and offers a corrected version, indicating that it is equivalent to the previous one up to an additive constant.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the choice of potential energy reference points, emphasizing that it does not affect the equations of motion due to the nature of additive constants.
  • One participant elaborates on the kinetic energy expression in polar coordinates, reinforcing the correctness of the kinetic energy term in the context of circular motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the initial Lagrangian formulation. There are competing views regarding the appropriate expression for the Lagrangian and its implications for the equations of motion.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions about the assumptions made in the derivation of the Lagrangian and the implications of different formulations on the resulting equations of motion.

Hamiltonian
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TL;DR
on applying the Euler Lagrange equation onto a system what exactly are you solving for and what is the significance of the solution you get?
I am new to Lagrangian mechanics and I have gone through basic examples of solving the Euler Lagrange equation for simple pendulums or projectiles and things like that. But I am unable to understand what we are exactly solving the equation for or what is the significance of the differential equation you end up with.

for example, if you consider a simple pendulum of mass m and length l
you get the lagrangian as $$L = (1/2)(mgl)\dot \theta^2 - mgl + mglcos\theta$$
and finally solving the Euler Lagrange equation gives you $$ 0 = \ddot \theta + (g\theta)/l$$
what is the significance of this solution?
 
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You obtain the equations of motion, but I don't think your Lagrangian for this example is correct (even though you somehow got the right answer :wink:)? Shouldn't it be, up to an additive constant,$$\mathcal{L} = T - V = \frac{1}{2}ml^2 \dot{\theta}^2 + mgl\cos{\theta}$$Then for the single generalised coordinate ##\theta##,$$\frac{d}{dt} \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial \dot{\theta}} = \frac{d}{dt} ml^2 \dot{\theta} = ml^2 \ddot{\theta}$$ $$\frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial \theta} = -mgl \sin{\theta}$$So the equation of motion is$$ml^2 \ddot{\theta} + mgl\sin{\theta} = 0$$If you take the small angle approximation,$$\ddot{\theta} = -\frac{g}{l} \theta$$That's SHM with ##\omega = \sqrt{\frac{g}{l}}## which is exactly what you'd get with forces.
 
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etotheipi said:
You obtain the equations of motion, but I don't think your Lagrangian for this example is correct (even though you somehow got the right answer :wink:)?
my bad shouldn't it be $$L = (1/2)(ml^2)\dot \theta^2 - mgl(1 - cos\theta)$$
 
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Sure, but it's equivalent to @etotheipi 's, because it just differs by a constant.
 
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It doesn't matter whether you take the zero of potential energy to be at the bottom of the swing or at the hinge, because that amounts to an additive constant, which doesn't change the equations of motion.

Your kinetic energy is now correct; notice that in polar coordinates the velocity is ##\vec{v} = r\dot{\theta} \hat{\theta} + \dot{r}\hat{r}##, and since the motion is constrained to be circular, ##\dot{r} = 0## and ##r = l##, so ##\vec{v} \cdot \vec{v} = l^2 \dot{\theta}^2##
 
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