Why does the Wikipedia article use a negative sign in the 4-gradient?

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In summary, the conversation discusses the contravariant and covariant components of the 4-gradient and the use of the metric to lower the index. There is confusion about the use of the repeated index notation and whether it represents a sum or a literal product. It is clarified that the correct notation is to use a sum, which can be seen when contracting the metric with the components.
  • #1
etotheipi
Apparently the contravariant components of the 4-gradient ##\partial## are ##\partial^{\mu} = \left(\partial_t, -\nabla \right)## where ##\nabla## is the usual 3-gradient. We can use the metric to lower the index like ##\partial_{\mu} = \eta_{\mu \nu} \partial^{\nu}## and if the signature is ##(+,-,-,-)## the space signs get flipped, so we should get ##\partial_{\mu} = (\partial_t, \nabla)##.

Why then in this Wikipedia article do they use ##\partial_{\nu} = \left(\partial_t, -\nabla \right)## when they write$$\partial \cdot J = \partial_{\nu} J^{\nu} = \left(\partial_t, -\nabla \right) \cdot (\rho, \vec{j}) = 0$$It's the right way round, since when we use the Minkowski inner product we recover the continuity equation ##\partial_t \rho = \nabla \cdot \vec{j}##, but they put a negative sign inside ##\partial_{\nu}##. So is it actually the other way around, i.e. ##\partial^{\mu} = \left(\partial_t, \nabla \right)## and ##\partial_{\mu} = \left(\partial_t, -\nabla \right)##? Sorry if I missed something!
 
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  • #2
It looks like the article gets a bit muddled. Putting the inner product symbol between two rows of numbers is bound to get conceptually cloudy in this context.
 
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  • #3
Ah, okay I think I get it now. Really it would be better just to say $$\partial \cdot J = \left(\partial_t, -\nabla \right) \cdot (\rho, \vec{j})$$either with all contravariant or all covariant components (in the above, all contravariant), or you can write it as the summation $$\partial \cdot J = \partial_{\mu}J^{\mu} = \partial^{\mu}J_{\mu}$$They're the same, but ##\partial^{\mu}## is an operator whilst ##\left(\partial_t, -\nabla \right)## is a tuple, and we shouldn't identify one with each other. So what they wrote is right, but maybe misleading.
 
  • #4
etotheipi said:
Ah, okay I think I get it now. Really it would be better just to say $$\partial \cdot J = \left(\partial_t, -\nabla \right) \cdot (\rho, \vec{j})$$or to do the summation $$\partial \cdot J = \partial_{\mu}J^{\mu} = \partial^{\mu}J_{\mu}$$They should be the same, but ##\partial^{\mu}## is an operator whilst ##\left(\partial_t, -\nabla \right)## is a tuple, and we shouldn't identify one with each other. So what they wrote is right, but maybe misleading.
$$\partial \cdot J = \partial_{\mu}J^{\mu} = \partial^{\mu}J_{\mu} = \partial_t \rho + \vec{\nabla}\cdot \vec j$$
 
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  • #5
PeroK said:
$$\partial \cdot J = \partial_{\mu}J^{\mu} = \partial^{\mu}J_{\mu} = \partial_t \rho + \vec{\nabla}\cdot \vec j$$

Sounds good to me 😜
 
  • #6
Something else just occurred; how do we know whether someone is using the repeated index notation to mean$$U_{\mu}U^{\mu} = U_0 U^0 - U_1 U^1 - U_2 U^2 - U_3 U^3 \quad \left( = \eta_{\mu \nu} U^{\mu} U^{\nu} \right)$$or a literal sum$$A_{\mu} A^{\mu} = A_0 A^0 + A_1 A^1 + A_2 A^2 + A_3 A^3$$Is this just another case of needing to keep your wits about you?
 
  • #7
It's never this:

etotheipi said:
Something else just occurred; how do we know whether someone is using the repeated index notation to mean$$U_{\mu}U^{\mu} = U_0 U^0 - U_1 U^1 - U_2 U^2 - U_3 U^3 \quad \left( = \eta_{\mu \nu} U^{\mu} U^{\nu} \right)$$

And always this:

etotheipi said:
or a literal sum$$A_{\mu} A^{\mu} = A_0 A^0 + A_1 A^1 + A_2 A^2 + A_3 A^3$$
 
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  • #8
Ah, right, of course you're correct. I got muddled, it should be$$A \cdot A = \eta_{\mu \nu} A^{\mu} A^{\nu} = A^0A^0 - A^1 A^1 - A^2 A^2 - A^3 A^3$$if you contract ##\eta_{\mu \nu} A^{\mu} = A_{\nu}##, you'd end up with$$\eta_{\mu \nu} A^{\mu} A^{\nu} = A_{\nu} A^{\nu} = A_0 A^0 + A_1 A^1 + A_2 A^2 + A_3 A^3$$but then, with the ##(+,-,-,-)## signature, you have ##A_i = -A_i## but ##A_0 = A^0##, so $$A_{\nu} A^{\nu} = A^0A^0 - A^1 A^1 - A^2 A^2 - A^3 A^3$$and everything works out as expected! Thanks :cool:
 
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What is a 4-gradient?

A 4-gradient is a mathematical concept used in physics and mathematics to describe the rate of change of a scalar field in four-dimensional spacetime. It is represented by a vector with four components, each corresponding to the four dimensions of spacetime.

How are signs in the 4-gradient determined?

The signs in the 4-gradient are determined by the direction of the vector in relation to the direction of increasing values of the scalar field. If the vector points in the same direction as the increasing values, the sign is positive. If it points in the opposite direction, the sign is negative.

What is the significance of signs in the 4-gradient?

The signs in the 4-gradient are important in understanding the behavior of scalar fields in four-dimensional spacetime. They can indicate the direction and magnitude of change in the field, and can also be used to calculate the rate of change at a specific point in spacetime.

How are signs in the 4-gradient used in physics?

In physics, the signs in the 4-gradient are used in various equations and theories, such as the Einstein field equations in general relativity. They can also be used to describe the behavior of particles and fields in quantum mechanics, and to study the properties of spacetime in cosmology.

Are there any limitations to the use of signs in the 4-gradient?

While the 4-gradient is a useful tool in understanding scalar fields in four-dimensional spacetime, it has its limitations. It does not account for the effects of gravity or other forces, and may not accurately describe certain phenomena at very small or very large scales. Additionally, the concept of a 4-gradient may not apply in other theories of physics, such as string theory.

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