Simple derivative. Where is the logical fallacy here?

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    Derivative
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the logical fallacies in a proposed method for deriving the derivative of the function \(x^2\) by treating it as a sum of \(x\) added to itself \(x\) times. Participants explore the implications of this approach, particularly in the context of differentiation and the conditions under which it is valid.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a method of deriving \(x^2\) by expressing it as a sum of \(x\) added \(x\) times, leading to a derivative that seems incorrect.
  • Another participant notes that the initial equality holds only for natural numbers and emphasizes the need for a real variable for differentiation to be valid.
  • A third participant points out that the derivative calculation fails to account for an additional term that arises when differentiating the sum, suggesting a more nuanced approach to differentiation.
  • A fourth participant argues that the summation itself is a function of \(x\), indicating that the number of terms cannot be treated as a constant during differentiation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the proposed method for differentiation, with no consensus reached on the correct approach or the nature of the fallacy involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to the assumptions made about the nature of \(x\) and the treatment of the summation in the differentiation process. The implications of treating the number of terms as constant versus variable remain unresolved.

PinkCrayon
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[itex]2^{2} = 2 + 2[/itex]
[itex]3^{2} = 3 + 3 + 3[/itex]
[itex]4^{2} = 4 + 4 + 4 + 4[/itex]

Generalizing...
[itex]x^{2} = x + ... + x[/itex] (x times)

Take the derivative of both sides.
[itex]\frac{\delta}{\delta x} x^{2}[/itex] = [itex]\frac{\delta}{\delta x}[ x + ... + x][/itex] (x times)
[itex]2x = 1 + ... + 1[/itex] (x times) [itex]= x[/itex] !?

Surely, there must be something wrong... and there is! But I thought this was pretty cool.
 
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PinkCrayon said:
[itex]2^{2} = 2 + 2[/itex]
[itex]3^{2} = 3 + 3 + 3[/itex]
[itex]4^{2} = 4 + 4 + 4 + 4[/itex]
This is true if x is a natural number only.
PinkCrayon said:
Generalizing...
[itex]x^{2} = x + ... + x[/itex] (x times)

Take the derivative of both sides.
[itex]\frac{\delta}{\delta x} x^{2}[/itex] = [itex]\frac{\delta}{\delta x}[ x + ... + x][/itex] (x times)
[itex]2x = 1 + ... + 1[/itex] (x times) [itex]= x[/itex] !?

Surely, there must be something wrong... and there is! But I thought this was pretty cool.
In order to do derivative you need a real variable x and a function for which differentiation makes sense.You should really try to understand what are the conditions for differentiation to avoid this kind of nonsense.
 
The derivative of your sequence fails to take into account that an extra term pops up.

Look at it like this:
[tex]\frac{d}{dx}f(x) \approx {f(x+1)-f(x) \over 1}[/tex]
[tex]\frac{d}{dx}[x + ... + x] \approx {[(x+1) + ... + (x+1) + (x+1)] - [x + ... + x] \over 1} = 1 + ... + 1 + (x+1) = 2x+1[/tex]Note that it normal to approximate (squeeze) integrals with summations, and summations with integrals.
Some major proofs are built on that concept.
 
When you write "[itex]x^2= x+ x+ \cdot\cdot\cdot+ x[/itex], x times", the "x times" summation is itself a function of x. You cannot just differentiate the sum as if the number of terms were a constant.
 

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