Simple (I think) Hydrostatics Problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a hydrostatics problem involving a submerged tank with both water and air, focusing on the dynamics of fluid flow when a hole is opened at the top of the tank. Participants explore the complexities of unsteady flow and the calculations needed to determine flow velocities at a specific instant.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster describes the scenario of a tank submerged in water with a known volume of water and air, and seeks help in calculating the water flow velocity into the tank and the air flow velocity out of the tank at the moment the top is opened.
  • Some participants suggest that knowledge of the initial air pressure in the tank is crucial for solving the problem, as it affects the governing equations.
  • One participant emphasizes that the initial air pressure is not constant throughout the process and should be considered in the analysis.
  • The original poster acknowledges the importance of the initial air pressure and admits to not including it in the initial description, indicating that it is known to be at atmospheric pressure.
  • The original poster expresses a need for assistance in formulating the governing differential equation for the unsteady flow problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of the initial air pressure in the analysis, but there is some contention regarding the implications of generalizing the problem without this information. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the formulation of the governing equations.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the initial conditions, particularly the air pressure, which is acknowledged but not fully detailed in the context of the governing equations.

cellery
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Being a rather novice engineer, I'm having trouble coming up with a solution to this problem. I think it's a rather simple problem with just a slightly complex twist (unsteady flow).

There's a tank submerged in water a certain depth (pictured). The tank has a known volume and contain a known initial volumes of water and air. At a certain instant, a hole is opened in the top of the tank such that air rushes out the top and water rushes in the bottom.

I realize this is an unsteady flow problem since the tank has a finite volume and it fills with water, displacing the air, but I think if someone could help me understand how to calculate the water flow velocity into the bottom and the air flow velocity out from the top just at the instant the top is opened (i.e., consider it steady for just that instant), I can do the rest of the unsteady analysis. If someone is willing to help model this as an unsteady problem, that's great too.

I know: the areas of the openings at the top and the bottom, the depths below the surface of the top and bottom of the tank (and therefore the hydrostatic pressures at each), the volume of the tank, the initial volumes of water and air in the tank, the initial height of water in the tank, and flow loss factors for the bottom and top holes.

I've been modeling the differential pressure across the holes like so:

deltaP = (1/2)*density*V_bottom^2*k_bottom, likewise for the top, where k is the flow loss factor associated with the shape of the hole.

I think that's about it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
 

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Maybe I missed something in my cursory inspection of the problem, but shouldn't you need to know the pressure of the air in the tank to begin with as well? That isn't a trivial quantity here and it, in general, isn't a constant through the process either.
 
The air in the tank is at atmospheric pressure to begin. It actually opens to the atmosphere first before the top of the tank submerges, but I'm overly generalizing the problem to get a better understanding of what's going on here.
 
Right, but overly generalizing the problem should include knowing the initial air pressure. That is an important initial condition for your governing differential equation.
 
You're absolutely right, this is just a situation where because it was obvious to me (since I know I'll have it open to atmosphere), I failed to mention it in my post. The original post should have mentioned that the initial pressure of the air is known as well.

Given these knowns, I need help determining the governing diff eq. Having had so little (read: almost none) experience with unsteady flow problems in school, this unsteady problem is tripping me up.
 
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