Simple (I think?) measure theory question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the measure of the difference between two measurable sets A and B, specifically exploring the formula for m(A-B) and related concepts in measure theory. Participants examine the implications of set operations and properties of measures, including additivity and the relationship between set differences and intersections.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks if there is a straightforward formula for the measure of the difference m(A-B) between two measurable sets A and B.
  • Another participant proposes that m(A-B) can be expressed as m(A) - m(A∩B), or alternatively, m(A-B) + m(A∩B) = m(A), which holds even if m(A) is infinite.
  • A different participant questions whether the term "set difference" refers to symmetric difference and provides a formula for symmetric difference, m(A ∼ B) = m(A) + m(B) - m(A∩B), suggesting a visual interpretation using Venn diagrams.
  • One participant seeks clarification on the justification for the proposed formulas and references a corollary from their textbook regarding m(B-A) when A is a subset of B.
  • Another participant affirms that S-T equals S - (S∩T) for any sets S and T, explaining that this follows from the definition of set difference.
  • A participant emphasizes the importance of the additivity property of measures and suggests breaking down sets into smaller pieces to understand the relationships between unions and intersections.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the terms used, particularly regarding set difference and symmetric difference. There is no consensus on a singular formula or approach, and the discussion includes both agreement on certain properties and differing views on the implications of those properties.

Contextual Notes

Some participants rely on visual aids like Venn diagrams for understanding, while others focus on formal definitions and properties of measures. The discussion includes assumptions about the properties of measures that may not be universally accepted or defined.

AxiomOfChoice
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If you have two measurable sets [itex]A[/itex] and [itex]B[/itex] (not necessarily disjoint), is there an easy formula for the measure of the difference, [itex]m(A-B)[/itex]?
 
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[tex]m(A-B) = m(A) - m(A\cap B)[/tex]
or, slightly better since it holds even if [tex]m(A) = \infty[/tex],
[tex]m(A-B) + m(A\cap B) = m(A)[/tex]
 
By set difference do you mean symmetric difference?
[tex]A-B= A\cap \overline{B} \cup \overline{A}\cap B[/tex]
where overline is set complement?

g_edgar's formulas are for:
[tex]A-B = A \cap \overline{B}= \{ x | x\in A \, \&\, x\not\in B\}[/tex]

I'll use ~ for symmetric difference and then:
[tex]m(A \sim B) = m(A) + m(B) - m(A\cap B)[/tex]
Its just a matter of looking at a Venn diagram and thinking of areas as the measure.
 
g_edgar said:
[tex]m(A-B) = m(A) - m(A\cap B)[/tex]
or, slightly better since it holds even if [tex]m(A) = \infty[/tex],
[tex]m(A-B) + m(A\cap B) = m(A)[/tex]
Thanks! But can you explain why this is this justified? There is a corollary in my textbook that gives [itex]m(B-A) = m(B) - m(A)[/itex] if [itex]A\subseteq B[/itex]. Do we have [itex]S-T = S - (S\cap T)[/itex] for any sets [itex]S[/itex] and [itex]T[/itex]? If we do, I'm satisfied...
 
AxiomOfChoice said:
Do we have [itex]S-T = S - (S\cap T)[/itex] for any sets [itex]S[/itex] and [itex]T[/itex]? If we do, I'm satisfied...

Of course you do! S-T is the points in S that are not in T. But the only points that can be removed from S are the points in T that are also in S. And [itex]S-(S \cap T)[/itex] is precisely the points in S except for the points in T also in S. It's nearly a semantic proof
 
Informally you see it in a Venn diagram.
Formally you look at the additivity property of measures, i.e. the measure of the union of disjoint sets is the sum of the measures of the pieces.

When dealing with any combination of unions and/or intersections simply break the set in question down into its smallest** pieces.

Example: Given initial sets A, B, and C you can break A up into A = ABC U ABC' U AB'C U AB'C' (where I'm using AB for A intersect B and B' for complement of B.)

**(smallest in terms of not further divisible by intersection with a given set or set's complement.)

This is very very straightforward stuff. Again draw a Venn diagram! I think you may be over thinking this.
 

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