Simple Modules and Maximal Right Ideals .... Bland, Proposition 6.1.7 ....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around Proposition 6.1.7 from Paul E. Bland's "Rings and Their Modules," specifically focusing on the relationship between simple modules and maximal ideals in the context of ring theory. Participants seek clarification on the proof and implications of the proposition, exploring both theoretical and practical aspects of the concepts involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter expresses confusion regarding the statement that a simple $R$-module $S$ corresponds to a maximal ideal $\mathfrak{m}$ of $R$ such that $R / \mathfrak{m} \cong S$.
  • Peter references a previous discussion about maximal submodules and their relation to simple modules, suggesting that a maximal right ideal can be viewed as a maximal submodule of a ring as a module over itself.
  • Participants discuss the necessity of proving that the annihilator $\mathfrak{m} = \operatorname{Ann}(x)$ is a maximal ideal, with one participant providing a detailed proof involving the first isomorphism theorem.
  • There is a clarification regarding why $1 \notin \mathfrak{m}$ when $x \neq 0$, with one participant succinctly stating that $1x = x$ explains this condition.
  • Another participant points out that the statement regarding maximal ideals leading to simple modules does not hold for noncommutative rings, referencing a source for further clarification.
  • There is a distinction made between the applicability of the discussed concepts to commutative versus noncommutative rings, with some participants emphasizing the context of right $R$-modules.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement, particularly regarding the implications of maximal ideals in different types of rings. While some points are clarified, the discussion remains unresolved on the broader applicability of the propositions to noncommutative rings.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the dependence on definitions of maximal ideals and the assumptions regarding the nature of the rings (commutative vs. noncommutative) when discussing the implications of the propositions.

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I am reading Paul E. Bland's book, "Rings and Their Modules".

I am focused on Section 6.1 The Jacobson Radical ... ...

I need help with the proof of Proposition 6.1.7 ... Proposition 6.1.7 and its proof read as follows:https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/6388
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/6389In the above text from Bland, in the proof of (1) we read the following:

" ... ... Since $$S$$ is a simple $$R$$-module if and only if there is a maximal ideal $$\mathfrak{m}$$ of $$R$$ such that $$R / \mathfrak{m} \cong S$$ ... ... "I do not follow exactly why the above statement is true ...

Can someone help me to see why and how, exactly, the above statement is true ...
Hope someone can help ...

Peter
 
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Peter said:
I am reading Paul E. Bland's book, "Rings and Their Modules".

I am focused on Section 6.1 The Jacobson Radical ... ...

I need help with the proof of Proposition 6.1.7 ... Proposition 6.1.7 and its proof read as follows:
In the above text from Bland, in the proof of (1) we read the following:

" ... ... Since $$S$$ is a simple $$R$$-module if and only if there is a maximal ideal $$\mathfrak{m}$$ of $$R$$ such that $$R / \mathfrak{m} \cong S$$ ... ... "I do not follow exactly why the above statement is true ...

Can someone help me to see why and how, exactly, the above statement is true ...
Hope someone can help ...

Peter

Just trying to clarify a few things regarding my question ...

We have from a previous post on which I received help ... ... that if $$\mathfrak{m}$$ is a maximal submodule of a module $$M$$ then $$M / \mathfrak{m}$$ is a simple module ... ... BUT ... ... we can view a maximal right ideal as a maximal submodule of a ring $$R$$ viewed as a right module over itself ... thus $$\mathfrak{m}$$ is a maximal right ideal then $$R / \mathfrak{m}$$ is a simple module ... is that correct?

Not sure how to piece together the rest of the proof of the statement above ... but we know that a maximal right ideal exists in $$R$$ because of Bland's Corollary 1.2.4 which states that every ring $$R$$ has at least one maximal right idea (maximal left ideal, maximal ideal).

A lingering question for me is ... why does Bland bother with $$S$$ in the above proof ...

Hope someone can help ...

Peter
 
Hi Peter,

Suppose $S$ is a simple $R$-module. To avoid trivialities we assume $S$ is nonzero. Let $x$ be a nonzero element of $S$. The module $Rx = S$ by simplicity of $S$. The $R$-mapping $R \to S$ given by $r \mapsto rx$ is surjective with kernel $\operatorname{Ann}(x)$, so by the first isomorphism theorem, $R/\operatorname{Ann}(x) \approx S$.

Now it suffices to prove that $\mathfrak{m}:=\operatorname{Ann}(x)$ is a maximal ideal of $R$. Since $x \neq 0$, $1\notin \mathfrak{m}.$ Let $J$ be an ideal of $R$ such that $\mathfrak{m}\subset J \subsetneq R$. It must be shown that $J = \mathfrak{m}$. Let $r\in J$. If $r\notin \mathfrak{m}$, then $rx \neq 0$, whence $R(rx) = S$ by simplicity of $S$. Since $x\in S$, then $R(rx) = S$ implies $r'(rx) = x$ for some $r'\in R.$ Hence, $(1 - r'r)x = 0$, i.e., $1 - r'r\in \mathfrak{m}$. So $1 - r'r\in J$, and as $r\in J$, then $r'r\in J$. Closure under addition in $J$ yields $1\in J$, contradicting the assumption that $J\subsetneq R$. This proves $J = \mathfrak{m}$ and $\mathfrak{m}$ is maximal.

Conversely, suppose such a maximal ideal $\mathfrak{m}$ exists. Then $R/\mathfrak{m}$ is a field, so it is a simple $R$-module. Since $S$ is isomorphic to the simple $R$-module $R/\mathfrak{m}$, then $S$ is simple.
 
Euge said:
Hi Peter,

Suppose $S$ is a simple $R$-module. To avoid trivialities we assume $S$ is nonzero. Let $x$ be a nonzero element of $S$. The module $Rx = S$ by simplicity of $S$. The $R$-mapping $R \to S$ given by $r \mapsto rx$ is surjective with kernel $\operatorname{Ann}(x)$, so by the first isomorphism theorem, $R/\operatorname{Ann}(x) \approx S$.

Now it suffices to prove that $\mathfrak{m}:=\operatorname{Ann}(x)$ is a maximal ideal of $R$. Since $x \neq 0$, $1\notin \mathfrak{m}.$ Let $J$ be an ideal of $R$ such that $\mathfrak{m}\subset J \subsetneq R$. It must be shown that $J = \mathfrak{m}$. Let $r\in J$. If $r\notin \mathfrak{m}$, then $rx \neq 0$, whence $R(rx) = S$ by simplicity of $S$. Since $x\in S$, then $R(rx) = S$ implies $r'(rx) = x$ for some $r'\in R.$ Hence, $(1 - r'r)x = 0$, i.e., $1 - r'r\in \mathfrak{m}$. So $1 - r'r\in J$, and as $r\in J$, then $r'r\in J$. Closure under addition in $J$ yields $1\in J$, contradicting the assumption that $J\subsetneq R$. This proves $J = \mathfrak{m}$ and $\mathfrak{m}$ is maximal.

Conversely, suppose such a maximal ideal $\mathfrak{m}$ exists. Then $R/\mathfrak{m}$ is a field, so it is a simple $R$-module. Since $S$ is isomorphic to the simple $R$-module $R/\mathfrak{m}$, then $S$ is simple.

Thanks for the help Euge ... much appreciated ...

But ... need a clarification ...

You write:

" ... ... Now it suffices to prove that $\mathfrak{m}:=\operatorname{Ann}(x)$ is a maximal ideal of $R$. Since $x \neq 0$, $1\notin \mathfrak{m}$ ... ... "

Can you explain why if $x \neq 0$ then we have that $1\notin \mathfrak{m}$ ...Hope you can help with this point ...

Peter
 
It's because $1x = x$.
 
Euge said:
It's because $1x = x$.
oh! of course ...

... thanks Euge

Peter
 
Euge said:
Conversely, suppose such a maximal ideal $\mathfrak{m}$ exists. Then $R/\mathfrak{m}$ is a field, so it is a simple $R$-module.

This is not true for noncommutative rings, see Rotman -Advanced Modern Algebra, part 1, 3rd edition 2017, page 280. To prove this statement, you need the Correspondence Theorem for Rings / Modules.
 
Last edited:
steenis said:
This is not true for noncommutative rings, see Rotman -Advanced Modern Algebra, part 1, 3rd edition 2017, page 280. To prove this statement, you need the Correspondence Theorem for Rings.

An old post, but I was only referring to commutative rings, not noncommutative rings.
 
Ok, but Peter was referring to right $R$-modules over a ring $R$, not necessarily commutatutive.
 

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