Simplification assumptions in physics problems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the necessity and implications of simplifying assumptions in physics problems, particularly in the context of word problems and mathematical modeling. Participants explore whether these assumptions are required, how they affect the accuracy of solutions, and the conventions surrounding their use in physics education and practice.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that simplifying assumptions are not strictly required but may be necessary to arrive at a solution when information is lacking, acknowledging that such solutions may only be approximate.
  • Others contend that simplifying assumptions must be made, as they are inherent to the modeling process in physics, regardless of the context.
  • A participant presents a specific physics problem involving a bowling ball and questions the ambiguity of missing data, suggesting that assumptions about friction and resistance are necessary for simplification.
  • Another participant emphasizes that while the problem may have an exact answer, the use of simplifying assumptions means the calculated result may not match precise measurements, thus making it an approximation.
  • Some participants highlight that physics problems often involve assumptions that are not explicitly stated, and these assumptions are part of the convention in problem-solving.
  • One participant points out that the complexity of real-world scenarios necessitates simplifications, and models are always approximations of reality.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of assuming certain conditions, such as neglecting air resistance or assuming constant speed, and how these affect the interpretation of the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of simplifying assumptions, with some asserting they are essential while others suggest they are not required but often made for practical reasons. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the extent to which these assumptions should be considered mandatory in physics problems.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the lack of certain parameters in problems may lead to the need for assumptions, and the precision of measurements versus calculated results is a recurring theme. The discussion reflects the complexity of modeling in physics and the potential for ambiguity in problem statements.

  • #31
Amad27 said:
Thanks @sophiecentaur , so one last question on this,

So textbook problems provide all information before-hand? This is convention/definition right?? Thanks! (This was one last concept question =D)

I couldn't speak for all textbooks and some questions can be mis-printed, badly written or just plain bad ones. I can't imagine why you keep asking what is effectively the same question. Are you hoping for a different answer? You have to ask yourself - what would be the point of a totally open question, where data is missing?
 
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  • #32
sophiecentaur said:
I couldn't speak for all textbooks and some questions can be mis-printed, badly written or just plain bad ones. I can't imagine why you keep asking what is effectively the same question. Are you hoping for a different answer? You have to ask yourself - what would be the point of a totally open question, where data is missing?

Hello @sophiecentaur,

My dilemma is that somehow I get winded up into philosophy.

Can I ask you something? Is this question a philosophical question?

The problem is philosophical questions never really have proper answers.

If this is philosophy, would you suggest accepting this fact and moving on??

Thanks! A lot
 
  • #33
Hardly philosophical - just pragmatic. How does someone know they have the right answer if the question has not been defined? Where the framework is well defined (as in elementary Physics) and you want to learn how to use it, open ended questions are just counterproductive.
Move on - as you suggest. There is nothing philosophical about the dynamics of a bowling ball.
 
  • #34
sophiecentaur said:
Hardly philosophical - just pragmatic. How does someone know they have the right answer if the question has not been defined? Where the framework is well defined (as in elementary Physics) and you want to learn how to use it, open ended questions are just counterproductive.
Move on - as you suggest. There is nothing philosophical about the dynamics of a bowling ball.
Hello @sophiecentaur , I meant something a little different.

Is the question of why and how we make certain assumptions a philosophical question? Is it philosophy asking why we believe word problems require certain assumptions such as there is no leakage in the trough?

Because this sort of deals with existence and communication so I just thought it was philosophy.

**************And philosophy does not have an absolute answer, so the best way to go about it is to accept that word problems provide all information, without a reason of WHY. **************

What do you say?
 
  • #35
Amad27 said:
Hello @sophiecentaur
**************And philosophy does not have an absolute answer,

What do you say?
And neither does Science. But most of Science starts from an entirely different place.
This thread should no longer be on this forum, imo. It should, rather, be somewhere in the 'lounge' as it is not helpful for someone who just wants to know Physics better.
 
  • #36
sophiecentaur said:
And neither does Science. But most of Science starts from an entirely different place.

I'll stop talking, but will you answer one more thing? Please? I don't think I've seen a reply on this question but,

(*) Was the question philosophical?(*)

Thanks! (thank you for responding @sophiecentaur !)
 

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