Singularity of atomic particle characteristics.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of atomic particle characteristics, specifically whether these characteristics, such as velocity, can be considered singular values at any instant in time. The conversation touches on the implications of measurement and the philosophical aspects of determinism in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that certain characteristics of particles, like mass or charge, are constant, while others, such as momentum and position, are probabilistic and cannot be known without measurement.
  • One participant questions whether velocity can be considered a single value before any observation is made, emphasizing the difficulty in attributing a velocity to subatomic particles, particularly in bound states.
  • Another participant suggests that the question may be philosophical if no experiment could be conceived to determine the singularity of velocity prior to measurement.
  • There is a reiteration of the idea that prior to measurement, the properties of a particle are unknown, which challenges the notion of defining velocity as a single value.
  • A later reply indicates that the inquiry may lead to discussions about determinism, suggesting that interpretations of principles could potentially prohibit a particle from having a single value of velocity at an instant in time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the characteristics of particles can be singular values before measurement. There is no consensus on the nature of velocity in this context, and the discussion remains unresolved, with some leaning towards philosophical implications.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations regarding the definitions of characteristics and the implications of measurement in quantum mechanics, as well as the philosophical nature of the questions posed.

Bob Bartlett
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At any instant in time, for an atomic particle, are its characteristics singular?
 
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What do you mean?
 
At an instant in time, is each characteristic of a particle (e.g. momentum, location, etc) a single value.
 
That depends on the characteristic. I believe some characteristics, such as mass or charge, are always constant. However, some are inherently probabilistic and can't even be known without a measurement. Momentum and position are two such characteristics. It isn't even possible to say what the momentum or position of a particle is prior to measuring that particle.
 
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Thank you for your prompt reply. I should have been clearer.

Before any attempt to perform any observation of a particle, at some instant in time is its velocity a single value?
 
Bob Bartlett said:
Before any attempt to perform any observation of a particle, at some instant in time is its velocity a single value?

No, it is also not knowable. It's sometimes difficult to even attribute a velocity to a subatomic particle, especially if it is in a bound state.
 
Please realize that I am not asking if any of these properties can be can be "known". My question is:
Bob Bartlett said:
Before any attempt to perform any observation of a particle, at some instant in time is its velocity a single value?

Do you understand my question?
 
What kind of experiment could be performed, even in principle, to answer your question? In other words, what experiment would lead you to conclude "yes, before any attempt to perform any observation of a particle, at some instant in time its velocity is a single value".

If there is no such experiment which could someday be performed then the question is philosophical rather than scientific.
 
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Bob Bartlett said:
Before any attempt to perform any observation of a particle, at some instant in time is its velocity a single value?
Bob Bartlett said:
Do you understand my question?

Yes, Drakkith does understand
But you seem not to be understanding his answer

PRIOR to measurement the properties you mentioned of that particle are unknown

Dave
 
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  • #11
To all, thank you for participating.

You may see my objective. To me this seems to be the first question in a discussion of determinism. So is it philosophical? At least a part of it is probably philosophical. That doesn't make it a bad question.

So another version of the question could be:

Is there an interpretation of any principle that prohibits a particle from having a single value of velocity at an instant in time?

And if so please explain how you got there.
 
  • #12
Bob Bartlett said:
So is it philosophical? At least a part of it is probably philosophical. That doesn't make it a bad question
Certainly it is not a bad question, but we only address scientific questions here. So this isn't the place for it.

This thread is closed. But if you think of a related scientific question then we can certainly discuss that in a new thread.
 
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