Solar System barycenter - Orbit of planets

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The discussion centers on the complexities of planetary orbits within the Solar System, particularly the relationship between the Earth, the Sun, and their respective barycenters. It is clarified that while the Earth orbits the Earth-Sun barycenter, the Sun orbits the Solar System barycenter, making it misleading to say that the Earth directly orbits the Solar System barycenter. The conversation highlights the importance of reference frames in understanding orbits, noting that different frames can yield different interpretations of motion. Additionally, the gravitational influence of other bodies, such as Jupiter, on the Sun and Earth is discussed, emphasizing that the center of mass of the Solar System is dynamic and not fixed. Overall, the thread underscores the need for precision in defining orbits and the effects of gravitational interactions among celestial bodies.
  • #61
Andrew1955 said:
I am meaning, according to the best available JPL ephemerides, the planets influence on the Earth Sun distance is tiny, compared to the very large differences that would be created by (in lay persons terms) 'orbiting the solar system barycenter'.
That "in lay person's term" is the heart of the problem with this thread. You are interpreting "orbiting the barycenter" in terms of Keplerian orbits. People who say that the bodies in the solar system orbit the solar system barycenter are not talking about Keplerian orbits.
 
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  • #62
I do love a circular (elliptical) argument!
 
  • #63
D H said:
That "in lay person's term" is the heart of the problem with this thread. You are interpreting "orbiting the barycenter" in terms of Keplerian orbits. People who say that the bodies in the solar system orbit the solar system barycenter are not talking about Keplerian orbits.

>>You are interpreting "orbiting the barycenter" in terms of Keplerian orbits.

Wrong. I am interpreting it as meaning the Earth Sun distance will vary by up to to 2 million kms due to the influence of the planets. Nothing like this is observed to be happening at all.

>>People who say that the bodies in the solar system orbit the solar system barycenter are not talking about Keplerian orbits.

For my purposes there are two types of people that I need to consider:

Type 1. This type is utterly confused and has no idea of what they are talking about other than they think the SSBC has some magic abilities to cause all objects to gravitate towards it.

Type 2. This type is the kind of person you are talking about when you say "People who say that the bodies in the solar system orbit the solar system barycenter are not talking about Keplerian orbits"

If my audience had people of type 2 in it I would not have come to physics forum. I needed a method to calculate the effect of the planets gravity upon Earth so I could know by what amount the Earth Sun distance could vary as caused by the planets gravity. I now know from my calculation that in terms of the huge Earth Sun distance the amount the planets change the path of the Earth, in terms of the Earth Sun distance, is very small.

If you are challenging me on the Earth Sun distance you need to provide a reference.
 
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