Solve dp/dt Velocity Problem: rho, v, g, f, u

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving an object with a surface area S that collects dust particles falling with a density rho and velocity v. The problem seeks to determine the velocity of the object, u, considering gravitational force g and friction coefficient f. The context includes analyzing forces and momentum changes due to the falling particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between momentum change (dp/dt) and the forces acting on the object. There are questions about the treatment of dp/dt and its derivation, as well as the interpretation of terms as vectors versus scalars. The calculation of mass based on the velocity of dust particles and surface area is also discussed.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively questioning the assumptions and definitions used in the problem, particularly regarding the treatment of momentum and the calculation of mass from velocity and surface area. Some have provided clarifications, but there is no explicit consensus on the interpretation of the terms or the methodology.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of potential missing information regarding the setup of the problem, particularly in how the velocity components relate to the mass of dust particles impacting the surface. Geometry may play a role in determining the volume of dust impacting the object over time.

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Object’s above area is S. Dust particles with density rho and velocity v fall over it. Fallen particles on object leave object and fall to the ground. Gravity is g. What is the velocity of the object, u? (Friction coefficient between ground and the object is f)

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4336/adszqv0.jpg

Solution is as since there is no acceleration, net force is zero.
Then G+N+ F(friction) + dp/dt = 0

Then x component of dp/dt is calculated as followed: (dpx/dt)

Ffriction = fN = dpx/dt = J * v(relative) = J * (v. Cos(theta) – u) (A)

(dpy/dt > y component of dp/dt)

N = mg + dpy/dt = J * (v*sin(theta)) (B)

J (mass of dusts fall in unit time) = S * rho * v(sin(theta))

Then solver makes derives simple equations from A and B and finds u.
My questioon is, how dp/dt is used. I guess it must be derived, but it is not derived and m*v is directly written.

If anyone understood the solution, please let me know. (Solution is correct by the way, it is taken from a book.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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physiker99 said:
Object’s above area is S. Dust particles with density rho and velocity v fall over it. Fallen particles on object leave object and fall to the ground. Gravity is g. What is the velocity of the object, u? (Friction coefficient between ground and the object is f)

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4336/adszqv0.jpg

Solution is as since there is no acceleration, net force is zero.
Then G+N+ F(friction) + dp/dt = 0
I am guessing these terms were written as vectors in the book you got it from, rather than as simple scalars as shown here?

Also, "G" is mg, the weight of the object?

Then x component of dp/dt is calculated as followed: (dpx/dt)

Ffriction = fN = dpx/dt = J * v(relative) = J * (v. Cos(theta) – u) (A)

(dpy/dt > y component of dp/dt)

N = mg + dpy/dt = J * (v*sin(theta)) (B)

J (mass of dusts fall in unit time) = S * rho * v(sin(theta))

Then solver makes derives simple equations from A and B and finds u.
My questioon is, how dp/dt is used. I guess it must be derived, but it is not derived and m*v is directly written.
The velocity change can be calculated from:
  • The dust has velocity v, at angle θ, before "colliding" with the object.
  • After collison, the dust has the same velocity as the object.
Besides the velocity change, you need to know how much mass of dust has collided with the top surface S per unit time. This is determined by density and volume. The volume is determined from S and v, θ (the before-collision velocity)

If anyone understood the solution, please let me know. (Solution is correct by the way, it is taken from a book.)

If you have more questions, feel free to ask.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am guessing these terms were written as vectors in the book
You're right, those were written as vectors. Excuse me.

Also, "G" is mg, the weight of the object?
Right, G is the mg (as far a i remember)

Besides the velocity change, you need to know how much mass of dust has collided with the top surface S per unit time. This is determined by density and volume. The volume is determined from S and v, θ (the before-collision velocity)

How can we use velocity component to calculate mass. Can you explain to me how you use velocity and S to calculate volume? I have difficulty to understand it.
 
physiker99 said:
How can we use velocity component to calculate mass. Can you explain to me how you use velocity and S to calculate volume? I have difficulty to understand it.

You'll have to use some geometry, and figure out where dust particles are located that would hit the surface within a time Δt later. That will define a volume of space.
 

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