Solve Force on Square Loop with Current I in Non-Uniform Field

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the force on a square loop carrying a current in a non-uniform magnetic field described by the equation B=kz \hat{x}. The loop is positioned in the yz plane and centered at the origin.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the forces acting on different segments of the loop, questioning whether they cancel out due to their directions. There is discussion about the effects of the magnetic field in different regions of the loop and the implications of the current's direction.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively questioning their assumptions about the forces on the loop and the behavior of the magnetic field. Some have offered insights into the direction of forces and the need to consider the non-uniformity of the magnetic field, but no consensus has been reached regarding the overall force on the loop.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the regions of the magnetic field and the implications of the current's direction, as well as the setup of the problem itself. Participants are grappling with the effects of the non-uniform field on the forces experienced by the loop.

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Homework Statement


Problem 5.4 Suppose that the magnetic field in some region has the form [itex]B=kz \hat{x}[/itex] where k is a constant). Find the force on a square loop (side a), lying in the yz plane and centered at the origin, if it carries a current I, flowing counterclockwise, when you look down the x axis.


Homework Equations


[tex]\vec{F} = I \int d\vec{l} \times \vec{B}[/tex]

The Attempt at a Solution


Now i can easily prove that the forces in the two sides that are in line with tehe Y axis cancel out

For the segments parallel to the Z axis however things are a bit different
on the top segment for z>0
[tex]F = i \frac{a}{2} k \frac{a}{2} (\hat{-z}\times\hat{x}) = \frac{ika^2}{4} \hat{y}[/tex]
For the bottom segment z>0
[tex]F = i \frac{a}{2} k \frac{a}{2} (\hat{z}\times\hat{x}) = -\frac{ika^2}{4} \hat{y}[/tex]

For the top segment z<0
[tex]F = i \frac{a}{2} k \frac{-a}{2} (\hat{-z}\times\hat{x}) = -\frac{ika^2}{4} \hat{y}[/tex]
For the bottom segment z<0
[tex]F = i \frac{a}{2} k \frac{-a}{2} (\hat{z}\times\hat{x}) = \frac{ika^2}{4} \hat{y}[/tex]

but don't all these forces just cancel to zero??

where have i gone wrong?? I know the answer can't be zero because this is not a uniform field...

Thanks for your help!

(edit: i have changed the diagram since i had done it wrong, the current should have been in the opposite direction)
 

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The forces on the top wire and the bottom wire are in the same direction.
z is only >0 for the top wire and only <0 for the bottom wire.
z can't be <0 at the topp wire.
There are only two forces to add.
 
Meir Achuz said:
The forces on the top wire and the bottom wire are in the same direction.
z is only >0 for the top wire and only <0 for the bottom wire.
z can't be <0 at the topp wire.
There are only two forces to add.

why can't z <0 for hte top wire... doesn't part of the wire lie in the z<0 region? And isn't the field different in taht region aswell??
 
stunner5000pt said:
Now i can easily prove that the forces in the two sides that are in line with tehe Y axis cancel out
Sure about that?
stunner5000pt said:
but doesn't the left side of the loop lie in the z<0 part of the YZ plane? Thus, doesn't the magnetic field become negative??
Yes.
 
Doc Al said:
Sure about that?

on second thought... it doenst cancel out

for hte right side loop
[tex]F = i \frac{a}{2} \hat{y} \times k \frac{a}{2} \hat{x} = \frac{ika^2}{4} \hat{z}[/tex]

[tex]F = i \frac{a}{2} (-\hat{y}) \times k \frac{-a}{2} \hat {x} = \frac{ika^2}{4} \hat{z}[/tex]

so the force points to the right, according to my diagram and has value [tex]\vec{F} = \frac{ika^2}{2} \hat{z}[/tex]thanks a lot!
 
Last edited:
Meir Achuz said:
The forces on the top wire and the bottom wire are in the same direction.
z is only >0 for the top wire and only <0 for the bottom wire.
z can't be <0 at the topp wire.
There are only two forces to add.

when i do the Right hand rule i see that on top force is up and at bottom its down so they cancel
now the sides the force also points in opposite direction so they cancel...
this does not make sense to me at all could some1 explain please
 
Last edited:
Brown Arrow said:
when i do the Right hand rule i see that on top force is up and at bottom its down so they cancel
now the sides the force also points in opposite direction so they cancel...
this does not make sense to me at all could some1 explain please

Are you sure you got the directions of the magnetic field right? To summarize, if k>0, the field points up on the right side of the image and down on the left side.
 

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