Solve Lagrangian of System w/ 1 Degree of Freedom

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a bead of mass m sliding on a wire that rotates with a constant angular velocity while being influenced by gravity. The task is to determine the Lagrangian of the system using a single generalized coordinate and to derive the corresponding Lagrange's equation of motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to identify the generalized coordinate and expresses confusion regarding the calculation of kinetic energy due to the motion of the bead along the wire and its circular motion. Participants question the method of combining velocities and clarify the geometric relationship between them.

Discussion Status

The discussion has progressed with participants providing feedback on the original poster's calculations and assumptions. Some guidance has been offered regarding the correct formulation of the kinetic energy and the handling of the differential equation. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of setting parameters to zero.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of correctly interpreting the conditions under which the angular velocity may be zero and the implications for the equation of motion. There is an acknowledgment of potential errors in the original poster's approach to solving the differential equation.

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Homework Statement


A bead of mass m slides on a long straight wire which makes an angle alpha with, and rotates with constant angular velocity omega about, the upward vertical. Gravity acts vertically downard.
a)Choose an appropriate generalized coordinate and find the Lagrangian.
b)Write down the explicit Lagrange's equation of motion.


Homework Equations


L=T-V.


The Attempt at a Solution


I'm a bit confused. They mean only 1 generalized coordinate so this mean the system has only 1 degree of freedom. Ok.
The center of my coordinate system is the point where the wire and the vertical meet. I call x the distance from this point to the mass. This means V=mgx \cos \alpha.
I'm having a hard time in finding the velocity of the mass. Not only it has a circular motion with tangential speed \omega x \sin \alpha but can also move along the wire with velocity... \dot x? Adding up these 2 speeds and squaring them in order to get the kinetic energy would not match the given answer.
I'd like some help to get the kinetic energy of this particle/mass. Thank you.
 
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Are you squaring then adding or adding then squaring?
 
vela said:
Are you squaring then adding or adding then squaring?

Adding then squaring. Basically I say that v=\dot x +x \omega \sin \theta which is addition of tangential speed + speed along the wire. Wait a minute, since these 2 velocities aren't making "a right angle" it means that the total velocity isn't the sum as I thought. The total velocity would be worth the square root of their sum, meaning that the kinetic energy is \frac{m}{2}(\dot x+\omega x \sin \theta ).
 
The tangential speed and the speed along the wire do make a right angle with each other.
 
I like Serena said:
The tangential speed and the speed along the wire do make a right angle with each other.

Whoops right, I didn't see this. I played with my fingers, now I see it. I reported this on my draft. I have made a right triangle. One side is \dot x, another one is \omega x \sin \alpha and the hypotenuse is \sqrt {\dot x^2 + \omega ^2 x^2 \sin ^2 \alpha }. This is the speed of the particle. I hope this is right now... thanks for pointing this out!
 
Yes, it's right now. ;)
 
a)L=\frac{m}{2} (\dot x ^2+\omega ^2 x ^2 \sin ^2 \alpha )-mgx \cos \alpha.
b)\ddot x -x\omega ^2 \sin ^2 \alpha+g\cos \alpha =0. Apparently this result is correct.
I think I'm interested in solving this ODE.
I first solve the homogeneous DE, this gave me x_h(t)=Ae^{\omega x \sin \alpha}+Be^{-\omega x \sin \alpha}.
A particular solution is x_p(x)=c_3. Plugging and chugging this into the DE gives c_3=\frac{g\cos \alpha }{\omega ^2 \sin ^2 \alpha}.
So the general solution to the ODE is x(t)=Ae^{\omega x \sin \alpha}+Be^{-\omega x \sin \alpha}+\frac{g\cos \alpha }{\omega ^2 \sin ^2 \alpha}.

Edit: Hmm I probably made an error. It looks like there's a term that blows up if omega is worth 0... cannot be right...
 
You want t in the exponents, not x. The ##\omega=0## case needs to be handled separately by setting it to 0 in the original DE and then solving it. You can't set it to 0 at the end because you assumed it wasn't 0 while solving the problem.
 
vela said:
You want t in the exponents, not x. The ##\omega=0## case needs to be handled separately by setting it to 0 in the original DE and then solving it. You can't set it to 0 at the end because you assumed it wasn't 0 while solving the problem.

Oh I see. I've made the exact same mistake in a previous exercise... I will try to be more careful in future.
 
  • #10
If \omega =0 or in fact -\omega ^2 \sin ^2 \alpha =0 (so alpha could be worth 0), I reach that x(t)=\frac{-g\cos ( \alpha ) t^2}{2}+v_0 t+x_0. Basically the equation of motion of a free fall with gravity worth -g\cos ( \alpha ) instead of -g. I can consider alpha to be worth 0 and I reach a common free fall equation which makes sense.
 

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