Solve Tricky Urn Problem: 2 Red Balls Probability

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the probability of drawing exactly two red balls from an urn containing a mix of red, white, and black balls. Participants explore different approaches to solving the problem, including combinatorial methods and probability calculations, without reaching a consensus on the correctness of the calculations presented.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for help in solving a probability problem involving drawing balls from an urn.
  • Another participant provides a calculation for the probability, but the method and results are questioned by others.
  • A participant suggests simplifying the problem by focusing on red versus non-red balls, arguing that the color of non-red balls is irrelevant.
  • Different methods of calculating the probability are discussed, including considering the order of drawing balls and the use of mutually exclusive events.
  • One participant presents a breakdown of the probability for different cases of drawing the balls, arriving at a final probability of 30/323.
  • There is a mention of a potential violation of forum rules regarding providing direct answers, emphasizing the goal of fostering learning.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the calculations and methods used to arrive at the probability. While some participants agree on certain approaches, there is no clear consensus on the correctness of the final probability value or the methods employed.

Contextual Notes

Some calculations presented are questioned for their accuracy, and there are unresolved aspects regarding the interpretation of the problem and the assumptions made in the calculations.

learning2math
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Would anyone kindly be able to show me how to solve a problem like this?

Suppose there are 8 white balls, 7 black balls and 4 red balls in an urn. If three balls are selected from the urn without replacement, what is the probability that two of them only are red?
 
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Ah thank you very much!

Could you please help me understand how you figured it out though?
I'm trying to follow your working but it doesn't seem to add up for me..
 
Plymouth calculated the # of ways to choose 2 red out of 4 possible red, times the # of ways to choose 1 not red out of 15 possible not red. Then divided by the total possible outcomes.
 
Oh ok.. so is it just me though or does the first part of the equation not equal the second part.. ie 0.21 vs 0.093?
 
Plymouth:

You violated one of the sites rules. Please do not give out answers. Our goal here is to help people learn, and giving out answers does not accomplish that goal.Learning2math:

The first thing to do is to get rid of superfluous information. All you care about here is red balls versus non-red balls. That some non-red balls are white and some are black is superfluous to this problem. You have 4 red balls and 15 non-red balls in the urn.

Sometimes it helps to look at these kinds of problems from a slightly different point of view. You are asked to find the probability that exactly two out of three of the balls drawn from the urn is red. That is exactly the same as the probability that exactly one of the three balls drawn from the urn is not red. The problem is much easier to solve (for me, at least) when looked at this way. You can draw the non-red ball on the first draw, the second, or the third. These are three mutually exclusive events (non-red, red, red versus red, non-red, red versus red, red, non-red).
  • Do these three distinct events have equal probabilities?
  • What is the probability of drawing a non-red ball, a red ball, and another red ball in that order?
  • Given the answers to the above questions, what is the probability of drawing a non-red ball, a red ball, and another red ball in any order?
 
Ah I have it now!

The probability of three separate cases = the sum of the probability of each case

--> R R NR = 4/19 x 3/18 x 15/17 = 10/323

--> R NR R = 4/19 x 15/18 x 3/17 = 10/323

--> NR R R = 15/19 x 4/18 x 3/17 = 10/323

10/323 + 10/323 + 10/323 = 30/323 = 0.093

Thanks guys, and thanks also to Gib Z who gave me some good advice too.
 

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