Solving Complex Equation: $$ \bar{z} = z^n $$

Click For Summary
The equation $$ \bar{z} = z^n $$ is analyzed for positive integer values of n. For n=1, all real numbers are solutions, as the equation simplifies to $$ \bar{z} = z $$, which holds true for any real z. For n greater than 1, the solutions are limited to z=0 or $$ z=e^{i\frac{2 \pi k}{(n+1)}} $$ for integer k, indicating a specific set of complex solutions. The discussion highlights the importance of distinguishing between the cases of n=1 and n>1, as they yield different solution sets. Overall, the analysis clarifies the conditions under which the equation holds true for complex numbers.
Rectifier
Gold Member
Messages
313
Reaction score
4
The problem
I would like to solve:
$$ \bar{z} = z^n $$ where ##n## is a positive integer.

The attempt
## z = r e^{i \theta} \\ \\ \overline{ r e^{i \theta} } = r^n e^{i \theta n} \\ r e^{-i \theta} = r^n e^{i \theta n} ##
## r = r^n \Leftrightarrow true \ \ if \ \ n=1 \ \ or \ \ r=1##
## e^{-i \theta} = e^{i \theta n} \\ -\theta = \theta n + 2 \pi k, \ k = 0,1,2...n \\ -\theta - \theta n = 2 \pi k \\ -\theta(1+n) = 2 \pi k \\ \theta(n+1) = 2 \pi k_1, \ k_1 = 0,-1,-2,...,-n \\ \theta = \frac{2 \pi k_1}{(n+1)} ##

I don't understand the answer to this problem:
If ##n=1##, then all real numbers are the solution.
If ##n>1##, then ##z=0## or ## z=e^{i\frac{2 \pi k_1}{(n+1)}} ## for ## \ k = 0,1,2...n ##

I am not sure how all real numbers could be a solution when n=1 and where they got ##z=0## and the condition ##n>1## from.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Rectifier said:
The problem
I would like to solve:
$$ \bar{z} = z^n $$ where ##n## is a positive integer.

The attempt
## z = r e^{i \theta} \\ \\ \overline{ r e^{i \theta} } = r^n e^{i \theta n} \\ r e^{-i \theta} = r^n e^{i \theta n} ##
## r = r^n \Leftrightarrow true \ \ if \ \ n=1 \ \ or \ \ r=1##
## e^{-i \theta} = e^{i \theta n} \\ -\theta = \theta n + 2 \pi k, \ k = 0,1,2...n \\ -\theta - \theta n = 2 \pi k \\ -\theta(1+n) = 2 \pi k \\ \theta(n+1) = 2 \pi k_1, \ k_1 = 0,-1,-2,...,-n \\ \theta = \frac{2 \pi k_1}{(n+1)} ##

I don't understand the answer to this problem:I am not sure how all real numbers could be a solution when n=1 and where they got ##z=0## and the condition ##n>1## from.
##r=r^n## is also true for ##r=0## which you have forgotten. This results in ##z=0##
For ##z \in \mathbb{R}## and ##n=1## the condition reads ##\bar{z}=z## which is certainly true.
Now to the role of ##k##. Shouldn't it be ##k \in \mathbb{Z}## and the positive ones are just a matter of representation?
 
  • Like
Likes Rectifier
Thank you for your comment!

If the r=0 doesn't it matter what n could be? I mean, n could be 1 since ## 0 = 0^n = 0^1 ##, right?
I understand why z=0 if r=0 now, but I don't understand why n has to be > 1 and couldn't be = 1 there.

For k, I guess, that its just matter of representation since I get the same answer as the book if I put ##2 \pi k##
on a different side when I compared exponents.
 
Rectifier said:
Thank you for your comment!

If the r=0 doesn't it matter what n could be? I mean, n could be 1 since ## 0 = 0^n = 0^1 ##, right?
Yes.
I understand why z=0 if r=0 now, but I don't understand why n has to be > 1 and couldn't be = 1 there.
Yes, it can also be one. However, this case (##z=0##) is already covered by ##z \in \mathbb{R}##, the first case.
For k, I guess, that its just matter of representation since I get the same answer as the book if I put ##2 \pi k##
on a different side when I compared exponents.
The ##k## says in which direction full circles are added, but both directions work: a full circle is a full circle, no matter in which direction. So the book as well as your solution should better be ##k \in \mathbb{Z}## in both cases. On the other hand, it doesn't really matter.
 
  • Like
Likes Rectifier
I understand the part with k but, unfortunately, I still don't get the rest of it, sorry. I suspect that I misunderstand some very basic algebra.

Let me try again and provide a few more steps to my calculation:
## r=r^n \\ r \left(1-r^{n-1} \right) = 0## I understand this as ## r_1 = 0 ## if ## n \neq 1 ##. Since if ##n = 1## then we have ## r \cdot \left(1-r^{1-1} \right) \Rightarrow r \cdot 0 = 0 ## which is solved by all ##r##:s.

## 1-r^{n-1} = 0 ## leads to ## 1=r^{n-1} ## which leads to ## r_2 = 1^{\frac{1}{n-1}} ## therefore ## r_2 = 1 ##.

Since ## z=re^{i\theta n} ## then ## r_1 = 0 ## leads to ## z=0 \cdot e^{i\theta n} \Rightarrow z = 0## when ## n \neq 1 ##. We now that ## n \in \mathbb{Z^+} ## "without 1" - ## n \in \mathbb{Z^+} \setminus \{1\} ## which is bascially ## n>1 ##. It is bascially the same thing for z where ## r_2 = 1 ## and we'll get the same result as in my first post. This part I understand, somewhat. Now to the next one.Now for ##n=1##. How do I reason here?
I guess I could go back to ## r=r^n \\ r \left(1-r^{n-1} \right) = 0## and set ## n =1 ## and get ## r \cdot 0 = 0 ##. All r:s solve it but I am expecting to get ## z=r## from ## z=re^{i\theta n} ## . In that case we would need ## \theta = 0 ## since ## n = 1 ##, ## z=re^{i 0 \cdot 1} ##. But how could one reason here?
 
Rectifier said:
I understand the part with k but, unfortunately, I still don't get the rest of it, sorry. I suspect that I misunderstand some very basic algebra.

Let me try again and provide a few more steps to my calculation:
## r=r^n \\ r \left(1-r^{n-1} \right) = 0##
This is the correct way to look at it, yes.
I understand this as ## r_1 = 0 ## if ## n \neq 1 ##. Since if ##n = 1## then we have ## r \cdot \left(1-r^{1-1} \right) \Rightarrow r \cdot 0 = 0 ## which is solved by all ##r##:s.

## 1-r^{n-1} = 0 ## leads to ## 1=r^{n-1} ## which leads to ## r_2 = 1^{\frac{1}{n-1}} ## therefore ## r_2 = 1 ##.
Yes. You could also just say: ##r=0 \,\, \text{ OR } \,\, 1-r^{n-1}=0##.

This way you have the logic or in between, which means, and is allowed. They can both be zero, which answers your previous question in post #3. The distinction in the book starts with ##n##. ##n## is either ##1## or greater than ##1##. This separates all further consideration into these two parts. As the result is a combination of ##n,r,\theta##, the combinations will be distinguished by ##n##, not by the other two numbers. There can and will still be ##(1,0,\theta)## and ##(n>1,0,\theta)##, which are different as triples, although resulting in the same number for ##z##. Similar happens to ##\theta## where you have many values resulting in the same number ##e^{i \theta}##. However, they are still different as triples, because we separated the cases ##n=1## and ##n>1##. I hope this clarifies your statement:
Since ## z=re^{i\theta n} ## then ## r_1 = 0 ## leads to ## z=0 \cdot e^{i\theta n} \Rightarrow z = 0## when ## n \neq 1 ##. We now that ## n \in \mathbb{Z^+} ## "without 1" - ## n \in \mathbb{Z^+} \setminus \{1\} ## which is bascially ## n>1 ##. It is bascially the same thing for z where ## r_2 = 1 ## and we'll get the same result as in my first post. This part I understand, somewhat. Now to the next one.
further.
Now for ##n=1##. How do I reason here?
I guess I could go back to ## r=r^n \\ r \left(1-r^{n-1} \right) = 0## and set ## n =1 ## and get ## r \cdot 0 = 0 ##. All ##r## solve it but I am expecting to get ## z=r## from ## z=re^{i\theta n} ## . In that case we would need ## \theta = 0 ## since ## n = 1 ##, ## z=re^{i 0 \cdot 1} ##. But how could one reason here?
You have forgotten the step before ##r \left(1-r^{n-1} \right) = 0##.
The reason why we got this equation is, that we looked at ##\overline{re^{i \theta}} = r^ne^{i n \theta}## and compared only their length:
$$
\overline{re^{i \theta}} = r^ne^{i n \theta} \Rightarrow |\overline{re^{i \theta}}| = |r^ne^{i n \theta}| \Rightarrow r = r^n \Rightarrow r(1-r^{n-1}=0 \Rightarrow r=0 \,\, \text{ OR }\,\, n=1
$$
That means we deduced a necessary condition which must hold, if ##\bar{z}=z^n##. It means the absolute value (length) of our complex numbers ##\bar{z},z^n## has to be equal. It does not mean, that automatically all such numbers are a solution. So ##r=0 \,\, \text{ OR } \,\, n=1## has always to hold. Now we can distinguish the cases ##n=1## and ##n>1##. One of them has to be true, and only one.

CASE 1
: ##n=1##
This means ##\bar{z}=z^1=z## which is equivalent to ##z \in \mathbb{R}## which automatically means ##\theta = 0## per convention.
Now we formally will have to check, whether all reals are actually a solution. O.k. this is easy and true. Thus all ##(n,r,\theta) = (1,r,0)## are a solution, which still means ##z## is real.

CASE 2: ##n>1##
This means ##r=0 \Leftrightarrow z=0 \,\, \text{ OR } \,\, r=1## are the only solutions. The case ##r=0## is clear. Now from here we have to consider more cases:
Given ##n>1, r=1##, which are necessary condition on ##\theta\,?## You have found that under these circumstances, ##\theta = \dfrac{2 \pi k}{n+1}## for all ##k \in \mathbb{Z}##. This is still a necessary condition, because we only have considered conclusions from ##\bar{z}=z^n##. Now we formally will have to check, whether all those complex numbers ##z=1 \cdot e^{i \theta}## are actually a solution. This is the case, so all possibilities are checked.

In sum we have
$$
\{z=re^{i\theta}\triangleq (n,r,\theta)\,\vert \,\bar{z}=z^n\} = \{(n,r,\theta)\,\vert \,n=1 \wedge r\in \mathbb{R}\wedge \theta \stackrel{(*)}{=} 0\} \cup \{(n,r,\theta)\,\vert \, n>1 \wedge r=0 \wedge \theta \stackrel{(*)}{=} 0 ) \} \cup \{(n,r,\theta)\,\vert \, n>1 \wedge r=1 \wedge \theta =\frac{2 \pi k}{n+1} (k \in \mathbb{Z}) \}
$$
and the unions are not all disjoint and ##(*)## per convention of how the reals are considered as complex numbers.

By the way, the formal step from ##1 \cdot e^{-i \frac{2 \pi k}{n+1}}= 1 \cdot e^{i \frac{2 \pi k n}{n+1}}## is to multiply the equation by ##e^{+ i \frac{2 \pi k}{n+1}}## and investigate when the new exponent will be zero to match the ##1=e^0## on the left hand side.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Rectifier
Thank you for your answer! I understand it better now!

What does the triangle above ##=## stand for here:
fresh_42 said:
$$
\{z=re^{i\theta}\triangleq (n,r,\theta)\,\vert \,\bar{z}=z^n\}
$$.
 
Rectifier said:
Thank you for your answer! I understand it better now!

What does the triangle above ##=## stand for here:
I used it for "corresponds to" or "is represented by". It is not an official symbol and here we have neither a form of equality nor a bijection. It just should say: "Let's have a solution ##z=re^{i\theta}=\bar{z}^n\,\triangleq\,##Let's have a solution ##(n,r,\theta) \ldots##". I simply wanted to abbreviate the long, formal road between the set of ##z's## and the set of triplets ##(n,r,\theta)##.
 
  • Like
Likes Rectifier

Similar threads

  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
637
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
970
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K