Solving Drumhead PDE: Normal Modes and Estimation Techniques

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving the partial differential equation (PDE) for a drumhead, specifically focusing on the normal modes of oscillation and estimation techniques for the lowest normal mode frequency. Participants explore the mathematical formulation using polar coordinates and trial functions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about deriving the differential equation for the normal mode using the polar coordinate version of the Laplacian.
  • Another participant confirms that the polar version of the Laplacian is necessary and suggests that the solution involves Bessel's functions.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about how to apply a suggested trial function in the context of the problem.
  • There is a discussion about the correct formulation of the PDE, with one participant correcting the inclusion of temporal terms in the Laplacian.
  • Participants derive equations from the separation of variables approach, leading to a form resembling Bessel's equation.
  • One participant attempts to estimate the lowest normal mode frequency using a trial function of the form \(Z = a^{\nu} - \rho^{\nu}\) and presents their algebraic manipulation to derive a frequency expression.
  • Another participant expresses appreciation for the clarification on the spatial nature of the Laplacian and acknowledges the usefulness of the separation of variables method.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for the polar version of the Laplacian and the use of separation of variables. However, there is no consensus on the correctness of the trial function approach or the derived expressions for the normal mode frequency, as some participants express uncertainty about the simplicity of the results.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the assumptions made in the trial function approach and the specific conditions under which the derived equations hold. The discussion reflects a reliance on mathematical manipulations that may depend on the definitions and parameters chosen by participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers interested in mathematical physics, particularly those studying wave phenomena in circular membranes or similar systems.

spock0149
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I've searched through about 5 math books but don't know how to start this one:

I have a drumskin of radius a, and small transverse oscillations of amplitude:

\nabla^2 z = \frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2 z }{dt^2}

Ok, so I can write the normal mode as
z=Z(\rho)cos(\omega t)

Questions:

1) If I want to find the differential equation for z=Z(\rho), do I just plug the second equation into the first, but use the polar coordinate version of nabla?

2) If I want to obtain an estimate for the lowest normal mode frequency using a trial function of form a^{\nu}-\rho^{\nu} with \nu an adjustable parameter...where do I start?

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
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Answer to #1 is yes, one needs the polar version of nabla.

It's been decades since I solved this problem, so I have to refresh my memory on it's solution, but one should get a Bessel's function, J(r), IIRC, and one looks for the first zero for the fundamental mode.
 
Thanks astronuc! The polar version works out nicely.

I'm still not sure how to use the trial function. Is the suggested trial function something I should use as z and plug into the equation?

Thanks!

:)
 
Ok, so writing out nabla in polar I get:

\frac{1}{\rho}\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho}(\rho \frac{\partial z }{\partial \rho})+\frac{1}{\rho^2} \frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial \phi^2}+\frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial t^2} = \frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial t^2}

I am trying to find a normal mode independent of azimuthal angle which is why I let the phi derivative go to zero.

after some re-arranging I get:

\rho^2 Z''+\rho Z'+\rho^2 \omega^2(\frac{1}{c^2}-1)Z=0

now, this kind of looks like Bessels equation, except the last term should look like (\rho^2-\nu^2)Z

with \nu some real number

I can't quite make the jump from my equation to Bessels...can someone give me any ideas?

Thanks!
 
spock0149 said:
I am trying to find a normal mode independent of azimuthal angle which is why I let the phi derivative go to zero.
Yes, this is fine. The assumes no azimuthal dependency.

spock0149 said:
Ok, so writing out nabla in polar I get:

\frac{1}{\rho}\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho}(\rho \frac{\partial z }{\partial \rho})+\frac{1}{\rho^2} \frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial \phi^2}+\frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial t^2} = \frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial t^2}
The temporal term on the left side is not correct. Nabla is spatial only. So, the correct equation should be,

\frac{1}{\rho}\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho}(\rho \frac{\partial z }{\partial \rho})\, =\, \frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial t^2}

Now we can try a trial function, Z(\rho)\,T(t)

\frac{1}{\rho}\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho}(\rho \frac{\partial (Z(\rho)\,T(t)) }{\partial \rho})\, =\, \frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2 (Z(\rho)\,T(t))}{\partial t^2}

which then yields

\frac{1}{\rho}\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho}(\rho \frac{\partial Z(\rho) }{\partial \rho})T(t)\,=\,\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2 T(t)}{\partial t^2}Z(\rho).


Dividing through by Z(\rho)\,T(t)

\frac{1}{\rho}\frac{\partial}{\partial \rho}(\rho \frac{\partial Z(\rho) }{\partial \rho})\,\frac{1}{Z(\rho)}\,=\,\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2 T(t)}{\partial t^2}\,\frac{1}{T(t)} = -\lambda^2

which then give two equations.


\frac{1}{\rho}\frac{d}{d \rho}(\rho \frac{d Z(\rho) }{d \rho})\,\frac{1}{Z(\rho)}\,=\, -\lambda^2

and

\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{d^2 T(t)}{dt^2}\,\frac{1}{T(t)} = -\lambda^2

The second equation can be written

\frac{d^2 T(t)}{dt^2}\,+\,\omega^2\,T(t)\,=\,0

and the other equation can be written as

\frac{1}{\rho}\frac{d}{d \rho}(\rho \frac{d Z(\rho) }{d \rho})\,\frac{1}{Z(\rho)}\,=\, -\lambda^2

which becomes

\frac{d}{d \rho}(\rho \frac{d Z(\rho) }{d \rho})\,+\,{\rho}\lambda^2\,Z(\rho)\,=\,0

The last equation should simplify to

\rho^2 Z''+\rho Z'+\rho^2 \lambda^2Z\,=\,0

Then letting x\,=\lambda\rho

One can write

x^2 Z''(x)\,+\,x Z'(x)\,+\,x^2Z\,=\,0

which is Bessel's equation of order zero.
 
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mmmmm...lovely. :)

Thanks astronuc. Thanks for pointing out that the nabla term was spatial only. I 'knew' that...but obviously it didn't surface from the deep cobwebs of my brain! I probably would have been stumped on this for ages without that!

The solutions makes a lot of sense. I saw that you used separation of variables and Bessels equation came out nicely!

Thanks again.

PS - cool beard!
 
Thanks again for the help.

Now, I have to find an estimate for the lowest normal more using the adjustable parameter:

a^\nu-\rho^\nu

Here is my effort, please tell me what you think:

Our equation reads:

\rho^2 Z'' + \rho Z'+\rho\frac{\omega^2}{c^2}Z=0

Let: Z=a^\nu-\rho^\nu
So,
Z'=-\nu\rho^{\nu-1}
and
Z''=-\nu^2\rho^{\nu-1}

Plugging into our original equation we get:

-\nu^2\rho^2\rho^{\nu-2}-\rho\nu\rho^{\nu-1}+\rho^2\frac{\omega^2}{c^2}(a^\nu - \rho^\nu)=0

...some lines of algebra...

\omega=\sqrt\frac{\rho^{\nu-2}c^2\nu(\nu+1)}{a^\nu-\rho^\nu}

Is this the correct way to get the normal mode? It makes sense to me but seems like its a little to simple.
 
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anyone care to take a stab?
 

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