Solving Ideal Gas Q: Temps & Press at A,B,C,D

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving one mole of gas in a heat engine undergoing the Otto Cycle. Participants are tasked with determining the pressures and temperatures at various points (A, B, C, D) during the cycle, given specific conditions and equations related to ideal gas behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of the ideal gas law, Charles's law, and Boyle's law to find missing values. Some express uncertainty about the applicability of these laws under the given conditions, particularly regarding temperature and pressure constancy.
  • There are attempts to relate the adiabatic condition and the first law of thermodynamics to the problem, with questions about how to derive necessary constants from the provided information.
  • One participant suggests that knowing the volume allows for the calculation of pressure at point B, raising questions about the relationships between the variables involved.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring various approaches and questioning the assumptions underlying their methods. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of the adiabatic condition and the relationships between pressure, volume, and temperature, but no consensus has been reached on a specific method to solve for all unknowns.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that certain assumptions may not hold, such as the constancy of temperature or pressure in applying specific gas laws. There is also mention of the need for both pressure and volume values to fully utilize the adiabatic condition.

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Homework Statement


1) Consider one-mole of gas in a heat engine undergoing the Otto Cycle
a) The gas absorbs heat, at constant volume between 120'C and 300'C
b) The gas expands adiabatically from V1 to V2 = 5V1
c) The gas cools, at constant volume to Td at point D where the pressure is 1At
d) The gas is then adiabatically compressed from V2 to V1 returning to the original temperature of 120'C
You may assume Cv = 5R/2 and Cp = 7R/2

What are the pressures and temperatures (in Kelvin) at points A,B,C,D?

Homework Equations



Ideal gas law pV = nRT
Charle's law = V1/T1 = K and V1/T1 = V2/T2
Boyle's law = P1V1 = P2V2

The Attempt at a Solution



Temperatures
A = 120 + 273.15 = 393.15K
B = 300 + 273.15 = 573.15K
C =
D =

Pressure
A =
B =
C = 1At
D =

I'm guessing I'm going to have to use Boyle's and Charle's laws in order to fill in the blanks.

V1 / 573.15 = 5V1 / T2

T2 / 573.15 = 5V1 / V1

T2 / 573.15 = 4V1

But here's the problem, it doesn't appear like this is going to solve anything. I reach this barrier for the other blanks as well. Could someone possibly edge me in the right direction please?

Thanks
 
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Crosshash said:

Homework Statement


1) Consider one-mole of gas in a heat engine undergoing the Otto Cycle
a) The gas absorbs heat, at constant volume between 120'C and 300'C
b) The gas expands adiabatically from V1 to V2 = 5V1
c) The gas cools, at constant volume to Td at point D where the pressure is 1At
d) The gas is then adiabatically compressed from V2 to V1 returning to the original temperature of 120'C

What are the pressures and temperatures (in Kelvin) at points A,B,C,D?

Homework Equations



Ideal gas law pV = nRT
Charle's law = V1/T1 = K and V1/T1 = V2/T2
Boyle's law = P1V1 = P2V2
Boyle's law only works if T is the same. It isn't. Charle's law only works if P is constant. It isn't.

You have to use the first law of thermodynamics: dQ = dU + dW and the adiabatic condition [itex]PV^\gamma = K[/itex] where [itex]\gamma[/itex] is the ratio Cp/Cv for air (1.4).

AM
 
Andrew Mason said:
Boyle's law only works if T is the same. It isn't. Charle's law only works if P is constant. It isn't.

You have to use the first law of thermodynamics: dQ = dU + dW and the adiabatic condition [itex]PV^\gamma = K[/itex] where [itex]\gamma[/itex] is the ratio Cp/Cv for air (1.4).

AM

So basically, if I can find out what K is from the Adiabatic condition, then I should be able to calculate the values of P and V for the other points?

Except I don't have a point which has both P and V values.
 
Crosshash said:
So basically, if I can find out what K is from the Adiabatic condition, then I should be able to calculate the values of P and V for the other points?

Except I don't have a point which has both P and V values.

Sure you do. You know that V = nRT/P. So if V is constant (ie. A to B) nRT/P is constant. You know T so you can work out P at point B.

So you can calculate [itex]PV^\gamma[/itex] for point B and, therefore, for point C.

AM
 

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