Solving Initial Value Problem: \(\ln(t)+t^2y^2-\sin(y)=\pi^2\)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving an initial value problem involving a differential equation expressed in the form of an exact differential. Participants are examining the logic and steps taken in the solution process, including the assumptions made and the integration involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the assumption of \(t > 0\) and its implications for the solution.
  • There is discussion about the derivation of the function \(F(t,y)\) and the integration steps involved in finding the solution.
  • One participant raises a concern about the origin of the term \(y^2ts\) and the cancellation of terms in the equations.
  • Another participant explains the conditions for a differential to be exact and discusses the mixed partial derivatives condition.
  • Clarifications are provided regarding the integration process and the role of constants of integration that may depend on other variables.
  • There is a suggestion that a term might be a typo, indicating uncertainty about the notation used in the original problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of understanding regarding the solution steps, and there is no consensus on the clarity of the original problem's logic. Some participants agree on the method of solving the exact differential, while others remain confused about specific terms and steps.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem involves assumptions about the variable \(t\) and the implications of those assumptions on the solution. The discussion also highlights the importance of understanding the conditions under which the differential equation is considered exact.

alane1994
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Ok, I have a practice exam... My professor gave out a copy with worked out examples. There is one where I don't get his logic at all. I was wondering if you guys could explain it to me?\(\displaystyle (\frac{1}{t}+2y^2t)dt+(2yt^2-\cos(y))dy=0\)

First, he put \(\text{Assume t>0}\)
?

\(\displaystyle \text{Since} \frac{\partial}{\partial y}(\frac{1}{t}+2y^2t)=4yt=\frac{\partial}{\partial t}(2yt^2-\cos(y))\)

\(\displaystyle F(t,y)=\int (\frac{1}{t}+2y^2t)dt=\ln(t)+y^2t^2+f(y)\)
\(\displaystyle ~~~~~~~~~~~=\int (2yt^2-\cos(y))dy=y^2ts-\sin(y)+g(t)\)

From those (not sure how to do two lines into right brace).

\(\ln(t)+t^2y^2-\sin(y)=C\)
\(y(1)=\pi\)
\(0+\pi^2-0=C\)

\(\therefore \ln(t)+t^2+y^2-\sin(y)=\pi^2\)
 
Last edited:
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Re: Ivp

alane1994 said:
Ok, I have a practice exam... My professor gave out a copy with worked out examples. There is one where I don't get his logic at all. I was wondering if you guys could explain it to me?\(\displaystyle (\frac{1}{t}+2y^2t)dt+(2yt^2-\cos(y))dy=0\)

First, he put \(\text{Assume t>0}\)
?

\(\displaystyle \text{Since} \frac{\partial}{\partial y}(\frac{1}{t}+2y^2t)=4yt=\frac{\partial}{\partial t}(2yt^2-\cos(y))\)

\(\displaystyle F(t,y)=\int (\frac{1}{t}+2y^2t)dt=\ln(t)+y^2t^2+f(y)\)
\(\displaystyle ~~~~~~~~~~~=\int (2yt^2-\cos(y))dy=y^2ts-\sin(y)+g(t)\)

From those (not sure how to do two lines into left brace).

\(\ln(t)+t^2y^2-\sin(y)=C\)
\(y(1)=\pi\)
\(0+\pi^2-0=C\)

\(\therefore \ln(t)+t^2+y^2-\sin(y)=\pi^2\)

An ODE written in the form...$\displaystyle A (t,y)\ dt + B(t,y)\ dy = 0\ (1)$

... where $\displaystyle \frac{\partial A}{\partial y}= \frac{\partial B}{\partial t}$ is called 'exact differential' and its solution, with initial condition $y(t_{0})= y_{0}$ is... $\displaystyle \int_{t_{0}}^{t} A(u,y)\ du + \int_{y_{0}}^{y} B(t_{0},v)\ dv = c\ (2)$

In Your case is $\displaystyle A(t,y) = \frac{1}{t} + 2\ y^{2}\ t$ and $\displaystyle B (t,y) = 2\ y\ t^{2} - \cos y$ so that $\displaystyle \frac{\partial A}{\partial y} = \frac{\partial B}{\partial t}$ and You have an exact differential. The general solution is given from (2)...

$\displaystyle \int_{t_{0}}^{t} (\frac{1}{u} + 2\ u\ y^{2})\ du + \int_{y_{0}}^{y} (2\ t_{0}^{2}\ v - \cos v)\ dv= c\ (3)$

... and the integration of (3) is left to You...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
Where did the the

\(y^2ts\)

come from?

How did terms cancel like that? It seems like they shouldn't.
 
Re: Ivp

This is a pretty standard "exact differential" problem. First, the "Assume t> 0" is to avoid t= 0 which, because of the "1/t", would cause trouble. Of course there would be another solution if we were to "assume t< 0".

(I just noticed that I have used "x, y" where you have "t, y". Assume my "x" is your "t".)

If F(x, y) is a differentiable function of x and y, then its differential is \frac{\partial F}{\partial x}dx+ \frac{\partial F}{\partial y}dy. As long as those partial derivatives are smooth, we must have the "mixed derivatives" the same: \frac{\partial^2 F}{\partial x\partial y}= \frac{\partial^2 F}{\partial y\partial x} (where the order of "\partial x" and "tex]\partial y[/tex]" indicates the order of differentiation).

Now, we can write "u(x,y)dx+ v(x,y)dy" which looks like a differential- but it may not be! (We would say it is not "exact".) If this were really a differential, We would have to have \frac{\partial F}{\partial x}=u and \frac{\partial F}{\partial y}= v then \frac{\partial^2 F}{\partial x\partial y}= \frac{\partial u}{\partial y}= \frac{\partial v}{\partial x}= \frac{\partial^2 F}{\partial y\partial x}.

That is what is called the "mixed partials test" and they are showing after "Since".

Because that is true, we know there exist some function, F(x,y) such that \frac{\partial F}{\partial x}= \frac{1}{x}+ 2y^2x. Integrating (with respect to x, treating y as a constant) F= ln(x)+ y^2x^2+ \phi(y). (Since we are treating y as a constant, the "constant of integration" may depend on y. That is the "\phi(y)" above.)

Now, differentiate F= ln(x)+ y^2x^2+ \phi(y) with respect to y: \frac{\partial F}{\partial y}= 2y^2x+ \frac{d\phi}{dy}. (Notice that the derivative of \phi is an ordinary derivative, not a partial derivative because \phi is a function of the single variable y.)

But we know, from the equation, \frac{\partial F}{\partial y}= 2yx^2- cos(y) so we must have 2y^2x+ \frac{d\phi}{dy}= 2yx^2- cos(y). Notice that the only terms involving x, 2yx^2, cancel! That had to happen because of the "mixed derivatives" condition. That leaves just \frac{d\phi}{dy}= -cos(y) so that \phi(y)= -sin(y)+ C (C really is a constant here) so that
F(x,y)= ln(x)+ y^2x^2- sin(y)+ C.

Since the differential equation was "dF= 0", F must be a constant: F(x,y)= ln(x)+ y^2x^2- sin(y)+C= c or just F(x, y)= ln(x)+ y^2x^2- sin(y)= C&#039; where I have combined the two constants: C'= c- C.

Dropping the "F", which was not part of the original equation, ln(x)+ y^2x^2- sin(y)= C.

(Replacing x with your t:
ln(t)+ y^2t^2- sin(y)= C.)

(I suspect the "y^2ts" was a typo. It should be just "y^2t".)
 
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Thank you guys very much! Makes a lot more sense now!
 

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