Solving Pidgeonhole Principle with Induction – A Helpful Guide

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Pigeonhole Principle, specifically applying it to a problem involving the distribution of objects into pigeonholes. Participants explore whether induction is an appropriate method for proving the principle in this context, and they examine the implications of distributing objects among pigeonholes.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the Pigeonhole Principle and attempts to apply it to a specific case with 5 holes and 11 objects, questioning the use of induction.
  • Another participant argues against using induction, suggesting that distributing kn objects equally among n pigeonholes results in k objects per hole, leaving one object that must go into a hole, leading to at least one hole containing k + 1 objects.
  • A third participant seeks a mathematical demonstration that guarantees at least one pigeonhole will contain k + 1 objects, referencing the remainder when dividing kn + 1 by n.
  • A later reply reiterates the need for a logical argument to show that no distribution can avoid having one pigeonhole with k + 1 objects, emphasizing the importance of clarity in mathematical representation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of induction for this problem. While some suggest it may not be the right approach, others are focused on finding a logical argument to support the principle without reaching a consensus on the method.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the importance of clarity in mathematical expressions and the need to properly represent the distribution of objects to avoid confusion.

lovemake1
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Homework Statement


Pidgeonhole principle: If kn+1 objects are placed in n pigeonholes, then some pigeohoe contains atleast k+1 objects.



Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



I completely understand this problem but I am not sure where or how to start.
If there are n = 5 holes and we set k to be 2.
then there are 11 objects in total and according to the principle, some pidgeonhole would occupy (2)+1 = 3 objects in one hole.


Do we use induction?

Assume k, n is natural:
Assume kn + 1 is nautral:
Then kn+1 > k + 1
Then kn > k
n > 1 ?
...

Can someone please give me a hint?
Helps appreciated.
 
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I don't think induction is the way to go for this problem.

Suppose you had kn objects and n pigeonholes (note spelling). One way to distribute the n objects would be to divide them equally among all the pigeonholes, with k objects in each hole. Of course, if you put more an extra object in one pigeonhole, another pigeonhole would end up with (k - 1) objects.

Now, if you have kn + 1 objects, and n pigeonholes, you can again distribute kn of the objects equally, with k of them in each pigeonhole, and you'll have one left over. Can you show that no matter how you distribute the objects, there has to be at least one pigeonhole with k + 1 objects in it?
 
Is there some mathematical way of showing that no matter how we distribute it, there's always one pigeonhole with k + 1 objects in it ?
I can represent this with an example, kn + 1 / n gives the number of objects to be placed in each hole to evenly distribute. But the remainder of 1 gives us one item left to be placed in some hole in which it will occupy k + 1.
 
lovemake1 said:
Is there some mathematical way of showing that no matter how we distribute it, there's always one pigeonhole with k + 1 objects in it ?
Yes. The way I have in mind is a logical argument.
lovemake1 said:
I can represent this with an example, kn + 1 / n gives the number of objects to be placed in each hole to evenly distribute. But the remainder of 1 gives us one item left to be placed in some hole in which it will occupy k + 1.
First, kn + 1/n is the same as kn + (1/n). I know you meant (kn + 1)/n, so use parentheses so that other people understand what you really mean.

Second, what you show above isn't an example. What you had in your 1st post with n = 5 and k = 2 - that's an example.

If you have n pigeonholes and kn + 1 objects, and you put k objects in each pigeonhole, you have one object left over. Is there any way of distributing the kn + 1 objects so that no pigeonhole has more than k objects?

That's what you need to argue.
 

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