Solving separable 2nd order DE

  • Thread starter Thread starter phantomvommand
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    2nd order Separable
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on solving a separable second-order differential equation (DE) from Griffith's Electrodynamics. The user incorrectly attempted to separate the equation using the form ##\sqrt{V} d^2V = \beta dx^2##, which is not mathematically valid. The correct approach involves defining the first derivative as a new variable, allowing the DE to be rewritten as ##\frac{dv}{dx} = f(y)## and subsequently applying the chain rule to achieve a separable form. This method leads to the equation ##v \, dv = f(y) \, dy##, which can be integrated properly.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of second-order differential equations
  • Familiarity with the chain rule in calculus
  • Knowledge of variable substitution techniques
  • Basic integration skills
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the method of variable substitution in differential equations
  • Learn about the chain rule and its applications in calculus
  • Explore the standard forms of second-order differential equations
  • Practice solving separable differential equations with varying functions
USEFUL FOR

Students and professionals in physics and mathematics, particularly those dealing with differential equations in electrodynamics or related fields.

phantomvommand
Messages
287
Reaction score
39
Homework Statement
please see attached pictures.
Relevant Equations
Integration, Substitution
Screenshot 2021-07-25 at 5.29.46 PM.png

This is a physics problem from Griffith's Electrodynamics. I'm mainly asking about the math here. I found the DE in the box at part (d).
To solve it, I did:
##\sqrt V {d^2 V} = \beta dx^2##
Integrating twice:
##\frac {4} {15} V^{2.5} = \beta x^2/2##

Why is my method wrong?

Thanks for the help.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Physics news on Phys.org
Write your second derivative as \frac{d}{dx} \left( \frac{dV}{dx} \right) and it should be clear that when you try to separate it using your method, what you actually get is:

\sqrt{V} \, d (\frac{dV}{dx}) = \beta \, dx
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: phantomvommand
You just cannot integrate this equation is $$\sqrt{V}d^2V=\beta dx^2$$ because , me at least , doesn't know how an integral of the form $$\int f(V)d^2V$$ is defined or an integral of the form $$\int f(x)dx^2$$ is defined.
That is because you have ##d^2V## there instead of ##dV## and ##dx^2## instead of ##dx##.
$$\int f(V)dV$$ and $$\int f(x) dx$$ are well defined, but not the integrals at the starting of my post, those are just not well defined.

What you do is that you assume not only that the integrals are well defined but also that the following equality holds $$\int f(V)d^2V=\ (\int f(V) dV \ )dV$$ (and something similar for the $$\int f(x)dx^2=\ (\int f(x) dx \ )dx$$.

I challenge you to prove the above equalities, there is no way to prove them, simply because the left hand side is not well defined
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: phantomvommand and docnet
BTW, the method the book uses is the standard way to solve DEs of the form \frac{d^2 y}{dx^2} = f(y)

Define the first derivative as a new variable, eg v = \frac{dy}{dx}.
Now in terms of v the original DE can be written as:
\frac{dv}{dx} = f(y)
Applying the chain rule you get:
\frac{dv}{dy} \, \frac{dy}{dx} = f(y)
v \frac{dv}{dy} = f(y)
Which separates nicely to give:
v \, dv = f(y) \, dy
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: phantomvommand and Delta2

Similar threads

Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K