Unclear concept on simple 2nd order differential eq

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the understanding of second-order differential equations, particularly focusing on the methods of solving them. The original poster presents a specific equation and questions the validity of using direct integration for a particular second-order ODE.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to solve a second-order ODE by direct integration, similar to simpler first-order cases, and questions why this approach fails for a specific equation. Other participants point out potential mistakes in the integration process and the loss of necessary terms.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's reasoning, providing insights into the integration process and highlighting the importance of maintaining all terms in the equations. There is a recognition of a mistake in the integration approach, but no consensus on a resolution has been reached yet.

Contextual Notes

There is an emphasis on the differences between solving first-order and second-order differential equations, with participants exploring the implications of losing terms during integration. The original poster's confusion stems from applying methods used in simpler cases to more complex equations.

davon806
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Homework Statement


Hi,I am learning to solve 2nd-order differential eq.
Suppose I have a equation
dy/dx - 3x = 0...(1)
Then dy/dx = 3x -----> x = 3(x^2)/2
Now if I have a 2nd order ODE such that:
d^2y/dx^2 = 3....(2)
Then it could be solved by integrating both sides wrt x twice,which yields
y = 3(x^2)/2 + Ax + B

Now,consider the case:
d^2y/dx^2 -6dy/dx + 9 = 0...(3)
I know it could be solved by using the idea of auxiliary equation(Putting y = Ae^(sx) into the initial eq)

But,why it's not possible to solve (3) by using direct integration on both sides as in (1) and (2)?
I can illustrate it here:
d^2y/dx^2 = 6dy/dx - 9,then I integrate both sides wrt x
dy/dx = 6 -9x + A
y = 6x -9(x^2)/2 + Ax + B
It's obviously incorrect,the (6+A)x term vanishes in the 2nd order derivative.Can someone tell me what's wrong?(I mean on the idea)

Thx

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


I have illustrated it in the problem statement.
 
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davon806 said:
But,why it's not possible to solve (3) by using direct integration on both sides as in (1) and (2)?
I can illustrate it here:
d^2y/dx^2 = 6dy/dx - 9,then I integrate both sides wrt x
dy/dx = 6 -9x + A
Didn't you lose a ##y## here?
As in: ##y'=6y-9x+A##.
 
Samy_A said:
Didn't you lose a ##y## here?
As in: ##y'=6y-9x+A##.
Thx so much^^,a silly mistake
 
davon806 said:
But,why it's not possible to solve (3) by using direct integration on both sides as in (1) and (2)?
I can illustrate it here:
d^2y/dx^2 = 6dy/dx - 9,then I integrate both sides wrt x
dy/dx = 6 -9x + A
y = 6x -9(x^2)/2 + Ax + B
As already noted by @samy A, you lost a factor of y in the second line of your work.

Starting with y'' = 6y' - 9, if we integrate (w. respect to x), we get
y' = 6y - 9x + A

If you try the same trick again, you will have y on the left side, but will have ##\int y dx## on the right side. Since you don't know what y is in terms of x, the integral can't be calculated.
 

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