Solving the General Bernoulli / Riccati Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a general differential equation of the form y'(t) + Ay(t) + By(t)^m + c = 0, exploring specific cases such as the Bernoulli and Riccati equations, and seeking methods to address the general case where c ≠ 0 and m is a real number.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster (OP) identifies the equation as a Bernoulli form when c=0 and a Riccati equation when m=2, questioning the existence of a solution method for the general case.
  • One participant suggests a transformation to rewrite the equation, proposing a substitution that leads to a linear form under certain conditions.
  • Another participant points out a potential mistake in the transformation process, specifically regarding the derivative of a new variable, prompting further clarification.
  • There is a discussion about the constants A, B, and C, with one participant confirming they are constant, which leads to a comment on the separability of the ODE.
  • A participant reiterates the transformation steps and provides an alternative approach to separate variables in the equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the transformation steps and the implications of the constants involved. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the general solution method for the equation.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the importance of the conditions on m and the constants A, B, and C, which may affect the solvability of the equation. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the nature of these constants and their potential variability.

crevoise
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Hello,

I have an equation of the following form: y'(t) + Ay(t) + By(t)^m + c = 0

1/ With c=0, the equation is of the Bernoulli form, and might be integrated.
2/ With m = 2, it is a Riccati equation, which might be turn back to a Bernoulli one and then integrated

3/ My question is about the general case, with c#0 and m a real (not only a natural). Does it exist some way to solve this general equation? Maybe there is a method to turn it back to Riccati or Benoulli shape?

Thanks a lot for your help

/crevoise
 
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crevoise said:
Hello,

I have an equation of the following form: y'(t) + Ay(t) + By(t)^m + c = 0

1/ With c=0, the equation is of the Bernoulli form, and might be integrated.
2/ With m = 2, it is a Riccati equation, which might be turn back to a Bernoulli one and then integrated

3/ My question is about the general case, with c#0 and m a real (not only a natural). Does it exist some way to solve this general equation? Maybe there is a method to turn it back to Riccati or Benoulli shape?

Thanks a lot for your help

/crevoise


Let write the DE as...

$\displaystyle \frac{y^{\ '}+c}{y^{m}} + \frac{a}{y^{m-1}}=-b$ (1)

First we set...

$\displaystyle u=y+c\ x \implies u^{\ '}= y^{\ '} + c\ ,\ y^{m}= (u-c\ x)^{m} $ (2)

... so that (1) becomes...

$\displaystyle \frac{u^{\ '}} {(u-c\ x)^{m}} + \frac{a} {(u-c\ x)^{m-1}}= -b$ (3)

Now we set...

$\displaystyle v=\frac{1}{(u-cx)^{m-1}} \implies v^{\ '}= \frac{1-m}{(u-c\ x)^{m}}\ u^{\ '}$ (4)

... and if $m \ne 1$ the (3) becomes...

$\displaystyle \frac{v^{\ '}}{1-m} + a\ v = -b$ (5)

... which is linear...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
chisigma said:
Let write the DE as...

$\displaystyle \frac{y^{\ '}+c}{y^{m}} + \frac{a}{y^{m-1}}=-b$ (1)

First we set...

$\displaystyle u=y+c\ x \implies u^{\ '}= y^{\ '} + c\ ,\ y^{m}= (u-c\ x)^{m} $ (2)

... so that (1) becomes...

$\displaystyle \frac{u^{\ '}} {(u-c\ x)^{m}} + \frac{a} {(u-c\ x)^{m-1}}= -b$ (3)

Now we set...

$\displaystyle v=\frac{1}{(u-cx)^{m-1}} \implies v^{\ '}= \frac{1-m}{(u-c\ x)^{m}}\ u^{\ '}$ (4)

... and if $m \ne 1$ the (3) becomes...

$\displaystyle \frac{v^{\ '}}{1-m} + a\ v = -b$ (5)

... which is linear...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$

Hello,

Thanks a lot for your answer.
I think yet there is a small mistake on it, on the second change:

$\displaystyle v=\frac{1}{(u-cx)^{m-1}} \implies v^{\ '}= \frac{1-m}{(u-c\ x)^{m}}\ u^{\ '}$ (4)

I think it implies

$\displaystyle v^{\ '}= \frac{1-m}{(u-c\ x)^{m}}(\ u^{\ '}-c)$

isn't it?
 
chisigma said:
Let write the DE as...

$\displaystyle \frac{y^{\ '}+c}{y^{m}} + \frac{a}{y^{m-1}}=-b$ (1)

First we set...

$\displaystyle u=y+c\ x \implies u^{\ '}= y^{\ '} + c\ ,\ y^{m}= (u-c\ x)^{m} $ (2)

... so that (1) becomes...

$\displaystyle \frac{u^{\ '}} {(u-c\ x)^{m}} + \frac{a} {(u-c\ x)^{m-1}}= -b$ (3)

Now we set...

$\displaystyle v=\frac{1}{(u-cx)^{m-1}} \implies v^{\ '}= \frac{1-m}{(u-c\ x)^{m}}\ u^{\ '}$ (4)

... and if $m \ne 1$ the (3) becomes...

$\displaystyle \frac{v^{\ '}}{1-m} + a\ v = -b$ (5)

... which is linear...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$

You might want to check step (4).
 
To the OP - Are A, B and C constant.
 
Yes, A, B and C are constant for the moment.
 
Then your ODE is separable. A much different animal if $A, B$ and $C$ are functions of $x$.
 
chisigma said:
Let write the DE as...

$\displaystyle \frac{y^{\ '}+c}{y^{m}} + \frac{a}{y^{m-1}}=-b$ (1)

First we set...

$\displaystyle u=y+c\ x \implies u^{\ '}= y^{\ '} + c\ ,\ y^{m}= (u-c\ x)^{m} $ (2)

... so that (1) becomes...

$\displaystyle \frac{u^{\ '}} {(u-c\ x)^{m}} + \frac{a} {(u-c\ x)^{m-1}}= -b$ (3)

Proceeding in correct way from (3) now we set...

$\displaystyle v=\frac{1}{(u-cx)^{m-1}} \implies v^{\ '}= \frac{1-m}{(u-c\ x)^{m}}\ (u^{\ '}-c)$ (4)

... so that if $m \ne 1$ the (3) becomes in some steps...

$\displaystyle v^{\ '}= (m-1)\ (a\ v+ c\ v^{\frac{m}{m-1}}+ b)$ (5)

... where the variables are separated...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 

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