Space at Singularity: Pre Big Bang Theory?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter BobbyTMS
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Space
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of space at the point of singularity, particularly in the context of pre-Big Bang theories. Participants explore the implications of singularities on the existence of space, time, and the behavior of particles, as well as the challenges of reconciling general relativity with quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether there is any space at the point of singularity, suggesting that all known particles may be compressed into a single point without any open space.
  • Another participant notes that when considering quantum theory, point particles and singularities are not allowed, raising questions about the implications for the Big Bang.
  • A participant asks if two point particles can merge, expressing confusion about how to reconcile this with the concept of the Big Bang.
  • It is mentioned that current theories about the Big Bang start from a very short time after time equals zero, and the state of the universe at that moment is largely speculative.
  • One participant states that nobody knows what happens at singularities, as both quantum mechanics and relativity break down, and describes singularities as analogous to points of discontinuity in mathematics.
  • The concept of Planck length is introduced, suggesting that if it is the minimum length, then nothing exists at smaller distances, leading to a state of pure energy without space or time.
  • Various pre-Big Bang theories are mentioned, including infinite and finite Big Bangs, quantum fluctuations, and bubble universes, with some admitting the possibility of pre-existing space and time while others remain unclear.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the nature of space at singularities, with no consensus on whether space exists or how singularities relate to the Big Bang. Multiple competing views and theories are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in current understanding, particularly the breakdown of mathematical frameworks at singularities and the challenges in unifying quantum mechanics with general relativity.

BobbyTMS
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Newbie question...

Is there ANY space at the point of singularity? Any space between any of the known type of particles, or is everything (energy, matter, photons, quark, muon, boson, etc... anything and everything in existence) squashed into a single point less any open space?
Is this the picture of pre big bang? If so there would be no speed of light, correct? Speed of light would not exist until space was introduced into the equation. Is that correct? I believe relativity states gravity is the warping of time and space. Could it be argued that gravity is the lack of space and time? Any and all feedback is appreciated.
Thanks
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
Is there ANY space at the point of singularity? Any space between any of the known type of particles, or is everything (energy, matter, photons, quark, muon, boson, etc... anything and everything in existence) squashed into a single point less any open space?
When quantum theory is taken into account, point particles and singularities are not allowed.
 
Why is this? Is this to say that two point particles cannot be made to touch or merge?
If they're not allowed how do you get back to the point of a Big Bang?

Thank you for your feedback mathman.
 
Current theory about the big bang starts from a very short time after time =0. What the state of the universe at t=0 is a matter of guesswork, trying to reconcile General Relativity with quantum theory.
 
Is there ANY space at the point of singularity?

Nobody knows...quantum mechanics and relativity breaks down at singularities...it's of the form 1/x as x approaches 0 or y/x as each approach zero...math breaks down...You can also think of a singularity as analogous to a point of discontinuity...like a sharp point amidst a smooth curve...describing such situations in physics requires a unification of quantum and relativity theories...

In a black hole, for example, the "center" may be better described as the location where time ends...or spacetime comes to and end...

If PLanck length is really the minimum length, then nothing exists at smaller distances, not space, not time, just roiling energy... space,time,matter become may become energy..

Is this the picture of pre big bang?

Perhaps...or not. It's speculation...pick your theory "infinite" big bang, finite big bang, quantum fluctuation, big bounce, bubble universes...and many other theories...some naturally admit pre existing space and time, others are completely unclear...
 

Similar threads

Undergrad Does Space Compressibility Affect the Big Bang?
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Undergrad How Does the Balloon Analogy Explain the Expansion of the Universe?
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Undergrad Before the Big Bang
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
3K
Graduate Pre-Big Bang Space-Time: A Possibility or a Speculation?
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
High School Is the Big Bang a Result of a Spontaneous Singularity?
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Graduate Did space time be created at the Big Bang?
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Undergrad Post Big Bang Gravity
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
Undergrad Questions about the Location of the Big Bang and the Age of the Universe
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
High School Is the Universe Inside a Black Hole?
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
7K
High School Could singularities be just rips in the space-time fabric?
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
6K