Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

A Space is "Entangled", says Leonard Susskind

  1. Sep 13, 2017 #1
    In the following youtube video,
    at 1:10:15, is he saying that space itself is "entangled" by means of the virtual particles of the vacuum energy being entangled? It sounds like this is one of the main points he is trying to make in the video. But if this is so, then isn't he saying that space itself is made of virtual particles, particles that transverse distances of space?

    I know some here really hate the idea of virtual particles and think of them as just a popular euphemism for the entities of quantum field theory. But I have to wonder how whole fields can be entangled. I thought only particles could be entangled.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 13, 2017 #2

    MathematicalPhysicist

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    That what happens when you are doing theoretical physics too long, you stop differentiating between what is virtual and what is real...:-)
     
  4. Sep 13, 2017 #3

    atyy

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    One way to think about it is that we get slightly different theories at different energy scales. The energy scale is a continuous quantity, and analogous to a "spatial dimension". It turns out that in specific cases, this is analogy seems to hold in fair detail. For example, the Ryu-Takayanagi formula relates the entropy of entanglement at the boundary of space to an area in space.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tangled-up-in-spacetime/

    https://www.quantamagazine.org/tensor-networks-and-entanglement-20150428/
     
  5. Sep 14, 2017 #4

    haushofer

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    It's not clear to me in these two papers what exactly is entangled and causes spacetime to emerge. Its content (matter and energy) or some yet to be discovered "atoms of space(time)"?
     
  6. Sep 14, 2017 #5

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    No, all quantum objects can be entangled. Even the vacuum is entangled, which is the origin of Reeh-Schlieder theorem.
     
  7. Sep 14, 2017 #6

    Fra

    User Avatar

    IMO, as the concept of entanglement is observer dependent in an wide sense, and entanglements between widely separated systems correlate "instantaneously" it almost throws in our faces that locality in ordinary 4D-spacetime and locality the more general "information space" so to speak can mix, and thus we have an observer dependent way of "mixing" internal and external degrees of freedom. While hard to grasp it hits the core of the foundational issues still not resolved, right?

    Ie. what are external and what are internal degrees of freedom is ultimately observer dependent. We need to accept that, and find a way from there to emergence of the effectively objective spacetime symmetries.

    /Fredrik
     
  8. Sep 14, 2017 #7
    I have a sense of how particles can be entangled. But I still don't understand how a field can be entangled. Is this a state in which every point in the field is entangled with every other point in the field? Or is it that one point in a field may be entangled with maybe one other point in that field? Or is it something else entirely?
     
  9. Sep 15, 2017 #8

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    Yes. But in the case of vacuum, the degree of entanglement decreases with distance.

    That would also be entanglement, but I don't know any explicit case of that.
     
  10. Sep 15, 2017 #9

    Fra

    User Avatar

    Note sure if got the question, but what susskind said is that two quantum entangled black holes is like a wormhole, connecting two separated points.

    I think it helps a little to think of entanglement is simply a dependence between outcomes of different measurements, for a given observer. So its kind of the measurements that are entangled. I principle this can be a measurement of ANYTHING. And this is a observer dependent constructon. This is why i think its confusing to say that "fields are entangled". If by fields we mean an observer defined quantum field that i may be more sound, but if its some classical or otherwise vague field whose "measurement" is not clear, it prefer to refrain from the terminology.

    But how to recover some observer invariant description out of this, seems to me like a very hard task, and stil open question. I consider susskinds speak to have the purpose to make us think of this.

    Did he expect us "understand" this?? I suspect not. Getting confused and embrace the confusion is probably a first good step. And i feel very confused.

    /Fredrik
     
  11. Sep 17, 2017 at 11:46 AM #10
    I think I can understand this in terms of a field. For if I know everything about one point in a field, where it is, its velocity, its acceleration, then I think I can say something about the waves of the whole field, right? But that would be the case classically as well. So I'm not sure where the quantum entanglement comes in. It would seem that the uncertainty principle would blur any information I would suppose about the whole field based on what I know at a single point. Is this uncertainty principle why I would lose entanglement with distance?
     
  12. Sep 18, 2017 at 1:45 AM #11

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    No. Entanglement between different degrees of freedom is caused by interaction between those degrees of freedom. It diminishes with distance (in the case of vacuum) essentially because the effect of interaction diminishes with distance.
     
  13. Sep 18, 2017 at 4:36 PM #12
    What is "interacting"? I though only particles interacted with other particles. How can one point of a field interact with another point of a field, if it is not a particle? Thanks.
     
  14. Sep 18, 2017 at 5:30 PM #13

    phinds

    User Avatar
    Gold Member
    2016 Award

    Yes, I am puzzled by this as well. I'm glad you asked.
     
  15. Sep 19, 2017 at 2:18 AM #14

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    Guys, have you ever been reading a book on field theory? Even classical field theory (like classical electrodynamics) counts. According to field theory, it is fields that interact. Particles can be thought of as special quantum states of fields.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017 at 3:41 AM
  16. Sep 19, 2017 at 7:28 AM #15

    Urs Schreiber

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    By the way, some references that discuss in a bit more technical detail the entanglement entropy of fields that is being referred to in these kind of discussions are listed here
     
  17. Sep 20, 2017 at 11:31 AM #16

    haushofer

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    Got it: It is the entanglement of the field; even in the CFT vacuum one has AdS spacetime in the bulk.
     
  18. Sep 20, 2017 at 11:52 PM #17

    Fra

    User Avatar

    Incidently this thread started in the qm section that imo more belongs in here.

    https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/dear-qubitzers-gr-qm.926149/

    A recent pondering from susskind takes EPR~ER to the next level and suggestd GR ~ QM

    I just saw it and havent read it yet but - give or take the details how susskind envisions the implications in the string world - i definitely share the vision that space is emergent from the information picture. In its extreme i think it may even hold a possible solution to the landscspe problem but that is yet another huge step

    /Fredrik
     
  19. Sep 21, 2017 at 3:15 AM #18

    Demystifier

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    Am I the only one who has a feeling that Susskind starts to sound like a crackpot? What will be the next step? classical physics = quantum physics? And after that, physics = consciousness?
     
  20. Sep 21, 2017 at 3:59 AM #19

    Fra

    User Avatar

    Well, the paper is clearly not a hard/excplicit paper, i see it more as informal waving argument that suggests a direction of thinking. So i tend to judge it for what i think it is tended?

    And given how little progress that has been made om the topic you learn to appreciate even the smallest glimpses.

    I agree that qm = gr isnt the best headline, neither do i see any new thinking in his examples. My own approach that i admittedly still has a long wat togo would rather involve a reconstuction of a measurement theory (QM) in a way that spacetime emerges causated by data compression in the observer system.

    ( Btw, i partially enjoyed your 2013 solipsist HV paper... for an analogous reason. I think is along the right path. I plannned to start a thread on that as well but didkt get time yet.)

    So my own perspective is open minded and "understanding" - this is hard stuff and i see only constructivity in whete researchers post soft papers as they can give ideas.

    For a mathematician i suspect susskinds paper is all baloney but he isnt a crsckpot in eyes. But he has the ballls to publish a soft paper? Rather a soft ball in the right direction than hard balls in the wrong direction. Unless you are just into mathemqtics. Then the way of doing things rank higher than doinh the right thing.

    /Fredrik
     
  21. Sep 21, 2017 at 4:41 AM #20

    MathematicalPhysicist

    User Avatar
    Gold Member

    Well by the criterion here in physicsforums where moderators judge physical claims without maths as crackpot, then yes he is a crackpot.

    But perhaps in hypography forums he won't be judged so harshly... :-D LOL
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?
Draft saved Draft deleted



Similar Discussions: Space is "Entangled", says Leonard Susskind
  1. ER=EPR FAQ by Susskind (Replies: 1)

Loading...