Special relativity and Density?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of density in the context of special relativity, specifically how the density of a cube changes when it moves at a significant fraction of the speed of light. The original poster is trying to connect principles of relativity with the calculation of density, expressing confusion about the relationship between mass, volume, and density under relativistic conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the effects of relativistic motion on mass and volume, questioning how these changes affect density. There are attempts to relate length contraction to the cube's dimensions and discussions about whether mass remains constant or increases with speed.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the relationships between mass, volume, and density under relativistic conditions, while others express uncertainty about the applicability of certain equations and concepts. The discussion includes various interpretations of how density might change, with no clear consensus reached yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that certain equations related to relativistic mass variation are not included in their textbooks, leading to confusion. There is also mention of the original poster's limited experience with relativity, which may affect their understanding of the topic.

vorcil
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A cube has a density of 1900 kg/m^3 while at rest in the laboratory.
What is the cube's density as measured by an experimenter in the laboratory as the cube moves through the laboratory at 92.0 % of the speed of light in a direction perpendicular to one of its faces?

My attempt,

I honestly have no idea how to do this one, I looked through my book and can't seem to find a way to stitch up a link between relativity and density, all I've ever done is Mechanics of relativity,

Do i somehow work out how much the length of the cube changes? or try to find the length of a cube, from 1900kg/m^3, Density = mass/ volume,

Length seen = Sqrt(1-beta)* length of cube at rest (where beta is velocity^2/ c^2)

length of cube at rest = sqrt( x^2* + x^2 + x^2 )
i'm not sure how to find the length of one side at rest(or i sort of do)

can someone show me how to solve for the rest of this question, it's bloody hard especially for a first year who has only been doing relativity for 4 days ^ ^
 
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If at rest the cube had a mass M and length l its density would be given by:
density=M/l^3(M/volume).What happens to M and the volume when the cube is moving?
 
the volume would decrease because of length contraction,
and mass would stay the same?
 
No the mass would increase .Look up the relativistic mass variation equation.
 
Dadface said:
No the mass would increase .Look up the relativistic mass variation equation.

I'm only doing special relativity, we don't even have the relativistic mass variation equation in our book. the only formula i could find in special relativity that had mass in it was rest energy e=mc^2 and kinetic energy k= (Yp -1)mc^2

i'f what you're saying is that volume decreases and mass increases as it speeds up so that density remains constant, i.e still 1900kg/m^3 I'm not sure it is, is this what you're saying?
 
i'm really stuck, can someone help please =]
 
2f98ac080167739e0752fe17aa8a61ef.png


i don't think this is what I'm looking for,
there must be some other way around it
 
vorcil said:
2f98ac080167739e0752fe17aa8a61ef.png


i don't think this is what I'm looking for,
there must be some other way around it
Why? What about that formula don't you like?
 
DaveC426913 said:
Why? What about that formula don't you like?

1: it's not stated in my book anywhere
2: i found it in a chemistry related page on wikipedia
3: it uses the mass of an electron, where I'm using the density of a cube
4: i have no idea how to use it to solve my problem
 
  • #10
Well done vorcil you have done the research and you just need to finish off.A few points:
1.Density = mass /volume so if the mass increase and the volume decreases the density gets bigger.
2.The mass variation equation was derived by Einstein by considering the electron but it is generally true.
3.Write down the equation for the density of the cube when it is at rest
D=M/l^3=1900
4.Using the relativistic equations and the symbols M and l write down the equations for the increased density.
5.You will now have two density equations and with a little bit of mathematical juggling you will be able to find the new density.
 
  • #11
I know this is 2 and a half years late, but for anyone who happens across this in the future, I hope it helps. I just learned special relativity in my college physics class. I'll give some basic equations for relativistic correction first then show how I used those to create a relativistic density equation.

1: β=\frac{v}{c} ie. if the object is traveling at 75% the speed of light β=.75

2: For the relativistic correction γ=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-β^{2}}}

3: For length contraction l=\frac{l_{o}}{γ} where l_{o} is the rest length

4: For mass increase m=γm_{o} where m_{o} is the rest mass

5: Now for density ρ=\frac{m}{V} So if we want the density in relativistic terms, we can just use the relativistic mass and length. Since we're using a cube, say with side length x, then the volume is x^{3} so the relativistic volume is V=x^{2}\frac{x_{o}}{γ} (you separate the x_{o} and the x^{2} because length contraction is only in the dimension of the velocity vector, the other two dimensions are unaffected) therefore our density equation becomes ρ=\frac{γm_{o}}{x^{2}\frac{x_{o}}{γ}} But we want it in terms of only density since we don't know the total mass or total volume of the cube. To do this we can solve the density equation for mass and for length. So m_{o}=ρ_{o}V or m_{o}=ρ_{o}x^{3} and V=\frac{m_{o}}{ρ_{o}} which is x^{3}=\frac{m_{o}}{ρ_{o}} or x_{o}=\frac{m_{o}}{ρ_{o}x^{2}} Next we plug those into the original relativistic density equation so we end up with ρ=\frac{γρ_{o}x^{3}}{x^{2}\frac{\frac{m_{o}}{ρ_{o}x^{2}}}{γ}} this looks confusing but it turns out nicely. For the denominator of the main fraction the x^{2} multiplies by the m_{o} and then γ on the very bottom, if we multiply by its reciprocal, moves to multiply by the ρ_{o}x^{2} therefore the whole denominator becomes \frac{x^{2}m_{o}}{γρ_{o}x^{2}} and you see that the two x^{2}'s cancel so the whole equation becomes ρ=\frac{γρ_{o}x^{3}}{\frac{m_{o}}{γρ_{o}}}. Now if we get rid of the bottom fraction by multiplying by the reciprocal we get ρ=\frac{γρ_{o}(γρ_{o}x^{3})}{m_{o}}. Now, if you look back a few sentences you see that we originally said that m_{o}=ρx^{3}, so plugging that into the ρ_{o}x^{3} in the numerator we get ρ=\frac{γρ_{o}(γm_{o})}{m_{o}}. Now the two m_{o}'s cancel and the two γ's combine to get the final relativistic density equation of ρ=γ^{2}ρ_{o} where ρ_{o} is the rest density. So with your rest density of 1900 \frac{kg}{m^{3}} and the speed being 92% the speed of light you get your β as .92 and plug that into find γ which comes out to γ=2.551551815 so ρ=(2.551551815)^{2}(1900) and your relativistic density is ρ=12369.8 \frac{kg}{m^{3}}.
 
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