Splitting an infinite set into two equal infinite subsets.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether an infinite set A can be divided into two disjoint subsets B and C such that A = B U C and |B| = |C| = |A|. Participants explore this concept in the context of set theory, cardinality, and the implications of the Axiom of Choice, particularly for infinite sets of various cardinalities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that if A is an infinite set, then |A| + |A| = |A| implies that it should be possible to partition A into two disjoint subsets B and C with |B| = |C| = |A|.
  • Others clarify that the question is whether the equations A = B U C and |A| = |B| = |C| have a solution for B and C.
  • Some suggest that well-ordering A and using transfinite induction could allow for such a partitioning.
  • There are claims that the existence of a bijection between any set and an ordinal, along with the properties of ordinals, could be necessary for the proof.
  • A few participants argue that the partitioning can be achieved without using ordinals, relying instead on the definitions of cardinality and properties of infinite sets.
  • One participant proposes a generalized conjecture that any infinite set A can be partitioned into pairwise disjoint sets {B_i | i in I}, with each |B_i| = |A| and |I| being any finite or infinite number less than |A|.
  • Another participant mentions that the partitioning of A into disjoint subsets can be demonstrated through mappings and the properties of cardinal numbers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of the Axiom of Choice and the use of ordinals in proving the partitioning of infinite sets. While some agree that partitioning is possible, the methods and implications remain contested, and no consensus is reached on the necessity of specific axioms or methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion involves complex concepts of cardinality and set theory, with references to specific properties of infinite sets and the implications of cardinal addition. The proofs and methods discussed may depend on various assumptions and definitions that are not universally agreed upon.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying set theory, cardinality, and the foundations of mathematics, particularly in understanding the implications of infinite sets and the Axiom of Choice.

  • #31
why does it seem to me like this is verging on trying to make onto functions from a function onto it's powerset? even before mathboy mentioned the p(r)
 
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  • #32
P(A + B) and P(A) x P(B) are naturally bijective sets, right? So all you need to do is find sets A and B, and bijections

A + B ~ R
A ~ R
B ~ R

And voilà! You have a bijection P(R) ~ P(R) x P(R).
 
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  • #33
Bijection F:P(R) x P(R) -> P(R):

Start with two subsets S and T of R. Get the characteristic functions (chi_S, chi_T). Get the characteristic function f:R -> {0,1} defined by

f(x)= (chi_S)(lnx) if x>0, (chi_T)(ln(-x)) if x<0. (problems with x=0, so someone find a better bijection from Rx{1,2} to R)

From the characteristic function f, get your unique subset of R corresponding to f. This subset of R is our F(S,T),
i.e. F(S,T)= {x|f(x)=1}.

Given S from P(R), let
A_S = F(P(R)x{S}).

The collection {A_S| S in P(R)} is the desired partition of P(R). All the A_S are pairwise disjoint, |A_S|=|P(R)|, and P(R) = U (A_S) .

Can someone find a better bijection from Rx{1,2} to R ?
 
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  • #34
f:R->{0,1}

f(x)=
(chi_S)(ln(x+1)) if x is a non-negative integer
(chi_S)(lnx) if x>0 and not and integer,
(chi_T)(ln(-x)) if x<0.

Yuck. Can someone think of a better one?
 
  • #35
What's so yuck about it?

Anyways, observe the following: if you split the real line up into two or more intervals, at least one of them must be either a closed or a half-open interval. Such intervals cannot be homeomorphic to R.

Your method looks like one of the standard tricks for creating a point out of "thin air", so I don't see why it's so yucky.


Anyways, thinking about yours did lead me to a different, cute example: split the real line into half open intervals
... + [-2, -1) + [-1, 0) + [0, 1) + [1, 2) + [2, 3) + ...
then do your favorite rearrangement of Z into two copies of Z.
 
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