Spring Force Resultant help please

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the resultant force in a system involving a slider, a ball, and a spring. Participants are trying to clarify the forces acting on the slider and how to determine the force required to make it slide, considering factors like spring force and friction. The context includes technical reasoning and conceptual clarification related to force diagrams.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions which of the two resultant force diagrams is correct, specifically whether the spring force should be considered the resultant force or just the x vector.
  • Another participant points out that the applied force in the diagram is directed in the -y direction and questions how the slider remains in contact with the surface without additional forces.
  • A participant suggests that the spring force is the resultant force since it is the only external force, but acknowledges the presence of friction.
  • One participant explains that the spring force can be determined using Hooke's law or by drawing a free body diagram and summing forces, indicating that the spring force is equal to the normal contact force.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the inquiry and suggests that understanding the difference in spring force between extreme positions may be relevant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on how to interpret the resultant forces in the diagrams, and there is no consensus on the correct approach to determine the force required for the slider to move.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the system's configuration, such as the exact nature of the surfaces involved and the values of the spring constant and displacement. The discussion also reflects uncertainty about the specific question being investigated.

gogogsr
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Hey guys, how are you?

I feel so stupid right now, I'm having a hard time getting my mind straight, which of the two resultant force diagram on the right is right? Typically its a slider with a ball and spring that slides on a recess (cam type). I want to know the force required on the slider to make it slide, here is the diagram. Thanks guys

forcespring.jpg
 
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hi gogogsr! :smile:

i don't understand your question

the diagram on the left clearly shows the applied force as being in the -y direction :confused:

(and btw, if there isn't another surface on the left (or some unshown x direction force), how does the slider stay in contact with the surface on the right?)
 
there is a surface on the left, it is just a quick diagram. The question is: Is the Fspring the resultant force (hypotenuse) of the triangle or just the x vector. I'm thinking it should be the resultant since it is the only applied external force , so it as to be the greatest force. (I know there is friction and everything, but keep it simple please)
 
Is this a continuation of this thread?

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=621559

To keep it simple the spring force pushes the ball against the detent with force F given by the spring constant times the extension.

This spring force is equal to the normal contact force so the force perpendicular to this is your 'wanted force'. This in turn is the friction force which is the normal force times the coefficient of friction.
 
Last edited:
could you draw it please ;-)
 
hi gogogsr! :smile:
gogogsr said:
I'm thinking it should be the resultant since it is the only applied external force , so it [h]as to be the greatest force.

i'm sorry, but this is nonsense, if you think like this it'll only confuse you :redface:

there are only two ways you can find the spring force …

i] from the spring displacement, using hooke's law (though you may not know the displacement, or the spring constant accurately enough for that)

ii] by choosing the whole or part of the system, drawing a free body diagram for it, and summing all the forces

(i still don't understand exactly what you're trying to investigate, but if it's the difference in spring force between the two extreme positions, then that will be simply the depth of the recess times the spring constant)
 

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