Strong differentiability condition

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of a specific limit involving a function's values at two points in its domain. Participants explore whether the existence of this limit implies differentiability and continuity of the function in a neighborhood around a point, as well as the conditions under which these implications hold.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the existence of the limit implies that the derivative f'(x) exists at the point x.
  • Others question whether the existence of the limit guarantees that the derivative is continuous in some neighborhood of x, seeking counterexamples.
  • A participant claims to have proven that if the limit exists, the function must be continuous on some interval around x.
  • Another participant presents a function with a discontinuity at x=0 and questions the implications of the limit's existence in this case.
  • There is a discussion about the assumptions regarding the parameters δ1 and δ2 in the limit definition, with some participants arguing about the necessity of constraints like δ1 ≠ 0 and δ2 ≠ 0.
  • One participant introduces a new definition of limit and argues that it does not imply anything different from the traditional definition used for derivatives.
  • Another participant provides an example of a function where the new limit exists while the traditional limit does not, raising questions about the relationship between the two definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the limit's existence, with no consensus reached on whether it guarantees continuity or differentiability in a neighborhood around the point x. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the definitions and implications of the limits presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarity in definitions and assumptions regarding the limit, particularly concerning the conditions under which the limit is evaluated. There is an ongoing debate about the appropriateness of certain constraints and the nature of convergence in the context of the limit.

  • #31
The reason you exclude the value that you're taking the limit towards is because you often have a function f(x) which is not defined at x=a, but is continuous elsewhere, and you want to know if you can extend the function continuously to a value at x=a. You can write this in shorthand notation as whether the limit
\lim_{x\to a} f(x)
exists, but only if the definition of the limit does not permit plugging x=a into the formula for f(x). If it does then the limit trivially doesn't exist because the function's original domain didn't include that point. It would be easy enough to work around but new notation/definitions of other things would have to be constructed to maintain rigor
 
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  • #32
jostpuur said:
Is there any situation, where we actually have a reason to forbid some points from inside the domain during limit?

When you sum a Fourier series (assuming it is convergent), the value at the end points (x=L and x=-L) are not necessarily equal to the limits at the endpoints.

Edit: Just to elaborate.

I'm talking about the case of one period, ##f : [-L,L] \to \mathbb{R}##. Open neighborhoods of L are of form ##(L-\epsilon, L]##. You need to remove L to take the limit.

Also, notice that the limit of L is always one-sided, so it always exists. (You don't have the situation where left is different to right and hence non-existing.)
 
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