Study on ruled vs unruled paper?

[John Mcrain]

Why all scientists write math/physics on blank paper, for example Einstein,in that time already exist lined/cell papers?

Is there any benefits to use blank paper notebooks when study engineering?
What notebooks do you use when study math/physics/engineering?

 

[Drakkith]

What notebooks do you use when study math/physics/engineering?

I use ruled notebook paper usually. It's simply what I've always had and I find the lines make it easier to keep all of my writing organized.

 

[John Mcrain]

I use ruled notebook paper usually. It's simply what I've always had and I find the lines make it easier to keep all of my writing organized.

You do math at paper with lines, isnt better on cells?

 

[symbolipoint]

Why all scientists write math/physics on blank paper, for example Einstein,in that time already exist lined/cell papers?

Is there any benefits to use blank paper notebooks when study engineering?
What notebooks do you use when study math/physics/engineering?

Some incorrect or misleading ideas there. One writes on the kind of paper one is comfortable with; or in some cases, one writes on the style of paper which the administration requires. My own choice is to use white, unlined paper for most writing, but to try to use professionally prepared graph paper to make graphs.

 

[symbolipoint]

You do math at paper with lines, isnt better on cells?

How you mean, "cells"? In some situations, one can construct tabulation slots, but each of these tables would be drawn only when needed or desired, and on normally unlined paper. (or on lined paper, if the person prefers this.)

 

[Drakkith]

You do math at paper with lines, isnt better on cells?

Not for me.

 

[Frabjous]

There is also paper weight. I like 16#.

 

[phinds]

Why all scientists write math/physics on blank paper ... ?

ALL? Do you have any evidence for that categorical statement or is this more along the lines of "according to a statistic that I just made up ... " ?

 

[John Mcrain]

How you mean, "cells"?

 

[John Mcrain]

ALL? Do you have any evidence for that categorical statement or is this more along the lines of "according to a statistic that I just made up ... " ?

I mean most..

I understand that Newton wrote at blank paper because at that time ruled paper didnt exist, but in 20century they eixist,so wonder why Einstein do math at blank paper.

All engineering notebooks have grid papers, usualy math/physisc/engineering use grid paper for writing.

What type of notebook do you use for engineering?

 

[John Mcrain]

I use ruled notebook paper usually. It's simply what I've always had and I find the lines make it easier to keep all of my writing organized.

What do you think about engineering paper, one side blank other with grid, so you can still write stright at blank side?

 

[anorlunda]

What do you think about engineering paper, one side blank other with grid, so you can still write stright at blank side?

Sorry, but I don't understand the significance of this thread. Why should anyone care what kind of paper other people use?

 

[Lnewqban]

... Is there any benefits to use blank paper notebooks when study engineering?

Before computers appeared, engineers must take hand drawing classes, and become proficient at it.
All engineering drawings and its texts were done by hand and on paper.

For other people to understand those documents, and to make its presentation uniform, certain sets of rules, formats and limitations were established.

Engineers at that time were encouraged to practice hand control as much as possible.
For that reason, we avoided ruled paper, even for taking class notes or for casual hand sketches.
We were expected to draw a close to perfect straight line, an ellipse and a circle without the help of any instrument.

At least in the country in which I studied, and at that time, lines or grids were considered back then as crutches that could ruin engineer's hand drawing and writing proficiency.

 

[anorlunda]

Before computers appeared, engineers must take hand drawing classes, and become proficient at it.

I took 2 years of mechanical drawing. I was terrible at it; partially because I'm left handed. But fortunately, proficiency was never a requirement for engineers, we could hire draftsmen to do the drawings.

 

[symbolipoint]

Sorry, but I don't understand the significance of this thread. Why should anyone care what kind of paper other people use?

It is interesting or frustrating or important to him. He has some experiences and made some observations. Several of the details he did not include. So far the topic is working.

 

[symbolipoint]

My question about "cells" on paper was because rectangular cells can also be drawn on paper to be filled with tabulated information or data. These can be square-based, or rectangle-based. Drawing them is not difficult, and we do not need graph paper or any kind of lined paper to be able to produce them.

 

[John Mcrain]

Before computers appeared, engineers must take hand drawing classes, and become proficient at it.
All engineering drawings and its texts were done by hand and on paper.

For other people to understand those documents, and to make its presentation uniform, certain sets of rules, formats and limitations were established.

Engineers at that time were encouraged to practice hand control as much as possible.
For that reason, we avoided ruled paper, even for taking class notes or for casual hand sketches.
We were expected to draw a close to perfect straight line, an ellipse and a circle without the help of any instrument.

At least in the country in which I studied, and at that time, lines or grids were considered back then as crutches that could ruin engineer's hand drawing and writing proficiency.

You had to calculate math tasks at blank paper as well? What years was it?

 

[John Mcrain]

Sorry, but I don't understand the significance of this thread. Why should anyone care what kind of paper other people use?

I want to know if there is some engineering rules, becuase I saw all engineering notebooks has grid paper.
In same time I would like to write on blank paper but my writing is terrible at blank paper.. Words float and sentecese are not straight..

I think you learn easier when contest on paper is nice and clear, so that stops me to use blank paper..

 

[phinds]

I think you learn easier when contest on paper is nice and clear, so that stops me to use blank paper..

Then what's the problem? Do that. Nobody cares. The trick is not to use the right paper, it's to do the work correctly.

 

[John Mcrain]

Then what's the problem? Do that.

I love past and if engineers use blank paper I will force myself to learn...

 

[phinds]

I love past and if engineers use blank paper I will force myself to learn...

Then what's the problem? Do that. Nobody cares. The trick is not to use the right paper, it's to do the work correctly.

 

[Baluncore]

Do it neatly, so it can be seen to be correct.
Remember, you are generating evidence that may be used to assist the coroner later.

 

[gmax137]

Here's a digression that ends in a tip for those documenting their work via handwritten notes or calculations.

When I finished school and started working, we (in engineering) wrote our calculations by hand. We often used pre-printed "calc pads" that had the company name and some typical fields for things like calc number, date, page __ of ___ etc. Completed calculations were stored in file cabinets.

In the late 1980s and during the 1990s, these completed calcs were scanned for electronic storage and retrieval. The scanner took an image of each page to create a .pdf file. The scanner margins were normally a bit smaller than the standard 8 1/2 by 11 inch calc pad paper. Frugal engineers tended to write smaller and smaller, and closer and closer to the bottom of the page, when they felt they could complete work on the final page, without starting a new page in the pad. So, the culmination of the calc would sometimes be written in a small hand, at the very bottom of the final page. In the scanned version, then, you see the calculation progressing to its climax: "... and therefore the maximum calculated pressure in the vessel is found to be"
with the following line off the bottom of the scan.

So the tip: do not be frugal with your paper. The final result of the calculation is worth a lot more than the 2 cents one additional page costs the company.

 

[anorlunda]

So the tip: do not be frugal with your paper.

I like that story. Once on an airplane, the stewardess stopped the film and put away the gear when there was still 60 seconds to go in the plot. The film was, "The Sting."

 

[symbolipoint]

I want to know if there is some engineering rules, becuase I saw all engineering notebooks has grid paper.
In same time I would like to write on blank paper but my writing is terrible at blank paper.. Words float and sentecese are not straight..

I think you learn easier when contest on paper is nice and clear, so that stops me to use blank paper..

What kind of paper the students use depends on what the head in the departments require. I am guessing you have reported what you have seen.

Some of us or should I say maybe, many of us are able to write in clear horizontal lines on plain unlined paper;; maybe this was just a matter of concentrated practice.

 

[Lnewqban]

You had to calculate math tasks at blank paper as well? What years was it?

I did not have to, but I have always found ruled paper somehow restrictive of my freedom to locate notes, formulae, calculations, etc.
Therefore, I always used blank paper, while several of my classmates had no problem using other types of papers.

My years of taking technical drafting were 1979 through 1981.
Having a good eraser that left minimum mess behind was the key to good grades.
We studied by this excellent book:


That practice has served me well during many years, while trying to explain an engineering idea to a technician on the field, while having nothing at hand than pencil and paper.

Please, see this article:
https://civilseek.com/free-hand-sketching/

 

[John Mcrain]

I did not have to, but I have always found ruled paper somehow restrictive of my freedom to locate notes, formulae, calculations, etc.
Therefore, I always used blank paper, while several of my classmates had no problem using other types of papers.

Today all engineering notebooks have grip papers.
I think doing math/physics on blank paper is Ok only if you write nice.

Do exist maybe some template with grid you can put under blank paper, so you can write straight and nice?

 

[Frabjous]

Do exist maybe some template with grid you can put under blank paper, so you can write straight and nice?

This will require that your paper be thin which can also cause problems.

You are under the misperception that there is a correct answer to your question. At best, there is a correct answer for you. Einstein would still have been Einstein even if he used an engineering pad.

 

[Lnewqban]

Today all engineering notebooks have grip papers.
I think doing math/physics on blank paper is Ok only if you write nice.

Do exist maybe some template with grid you can put under blank paper, so you can write straight and nice?

Practice make perfect.
If you want to improve the way others graphically understand your ideas in the future, you can find the best techniques that work for you to practice.

For example, take a piece of blank paper and draw several lines as straight and parallel among them as possible.
It would look bad the first time, but you will sure improve over time.
Rather than looking closely to the point of contact between pencil or pen and paper, keep your focal point on the imaginary ideal location of the end of your horizontal line.

 

[gmax137]

Do exist maybe some template with grid you can put under blank paper, so you can write straight and nice?

 

[gmax137]

More from memory lane:

Please note, these pads are not marked classified lol.

 

[berkeman]

Do exist maybe some template with grid you can put under blank paper, so you can write straight and nice?

I don't know if it's already been mentioned in this thread, but back in university and then in my R&D work in engineering, using Engineering Computation Pads was very common. The front of the paper is basically blank, but there are grid lines on the back of the paper that you can barely see from the front of the paper. That lets you keep your writing in evenly spaced lines, helps with writing equations, and makes it a lot easier to draw sketches with consistent dimensions. Available in a stationary store (or university bookstore) near you...

 

[symbolipoint]

Do exist maybe some template with grid you can put under blank paper, so you can write straight and nice?

I have seen a square grid ink stamp pad, from many years ago. I cannot remember what company made it or them.

 

[John Mcrain]

I don't know if it's already been mentioned in this thread, but back in university and then in my R&D work in engineering, using Engineering Computation Pads was very common. The front of the paper is basically blank, but there are grid lines on the back of the paper that you can barely see from the front of the paper. That lets you keep your writing in evenly spaced lines, helps with writing equations, and makes it a lot easier to draw sketches with consistent dimensions. Available in a stationary store (or university bookstore) near you...

View attachment 320968

Yes this is good but only lack is that you write at one side of page.
(plus notebook will be twice as thick)

 

[symbolipoint]

Yes this is good but only lack is that you write at one side of page.
(plus notebook will be twice as thick)

How is that the reverse side will not accept pen or pencil markings?

...
I just took another look at post #32. One side is only very lightly line-ruled while the other side is heavy in its line-ruling, so that side will create visual interference upon both writing and reading on that side.

 

[gmax137]

I just took another look at post #32. One side is only very lightly line-ruled

No, these pads are not lined on the "front," rather the paper is thin enough that the lines on the "back" show through.

... while the other side is heavy in its line-ruling, so that side will create visual interference upon both writing and reading on that side.

Yes, that's correct.

 

[Lnewqban]

As you can see below, @John Mcrain, Leonardo was one of the first engineers, who wrote in cursive, while keeping leveled lines and mixing letters and diagrams on blank papers.

You will need a mirror for that one.

Copied from:
https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/leonardo-da-vinci-notebook

"The manuscript is written in Italian, in Leonardo's characteristic 'mirror writing', left-handed and moving from right to left."

About the original reasons to use cursive:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursive

"The origins of the cursive method are associated with practical advantages of writing speed and infrequent pen-lifting to accommodate the limitations of the quill. Quills are fragile, easily broken, and will spatter unless used properly. They also run out of ink faster than most contemporary writing utensils. Steel dip pens followed quills; they were sturdier, but still had some limitations. The individuality of the provenance of a document (see Signature) was a factor also, as opposed to machine font. Cursive was also favored because the writing tool was rarely taken off the paper. The term cursive derives from Middle French cursif from Medieval Latin cursivus, which literally means running. This term in turn derives from Latin currere ("to run, hasten"). Although the use of cursive appeared to be on the decline, it now seems to be coming back into use."

 

[John Mcrain]

As you can see below, @John Mcrain, Leonardo was one of the first engineers, who wrote in cursive, while keeping leveled lines and mixing letters and diagrams on blank papers.

View attachment 321424

You will need a mirror for that one.

Copied from:
https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/leonardo-da-vinci-notebook

"The manuscript is written in Italian, in Leonardo's characteristic 'mirror writing', left-handed and moving from right to left."

About the original reasons to use cursive:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursive

"The origins of the cursive method are associated with practical advantages of writing speed and infrequent pen-lifting to accommodate the limitations of the quill. Quills are fragile, easily broken, and will spatter unless used properly. They also run out of ink faster than most contemporary writing utensils. Steel dip pens followed quills; they were sturdier, but still had some limitations. The individuality of the provenance of a document (see Signature) was a factor also, as opposed to machine font. Cursive was also favored because the writing tool was rarely taken off the paper. The term cursive derives from Middle French cursif from Medieval Latin cursivus, which literally means running. This term in turn derives from Latin currere ("to run, hasten"). Although the use of cursive appeared to be on the decline, it now seems to be coming back into use."

Cursive is fastest but is hard to read and paper looks like real mess, imagine that books looks like this.
I think is better for learning when paper looks nice,clean organized.

Do you prefer cursive or all caps like engineers/architects often write?



Legibility of this two words are incomparable:

 

[MidgetDwarf]

Cursive is fastest but is hard to read and paper looks like real mess, imagine that books looks like this.
I think is better for learning when paper looks nice,clean organized.

Do you prefer cursive or all caps like engineers/architects often write?



Legibility of this two words are incomparable:View attachment 321433
View attachment 321434

It is hard to read, because they do not teach handwriting in school anymore, and younger people today cannot read it.

I write mainly with fountain pen, and cursive. Largely due to a hand injury from many years ago. No complaints so far. Unlined paper is easy to use Just requires a bit of acclimation, and you will be writing straight in no time.

Look to see what is required from your department. Engineering departments typically require engineering paper. Some of the better made engineering paper is made by Roaring Springs. If you shop around, you can get these pads a bit cheaper than what most university bookstore and amazon sell it for. I once found 100 sheet pads for $2, and ordered about 200.

If you are free to use what ever you want, Seyes paper and dot grid are also interesting choices.

Do you prefer to write in pencil or pen? It makes a difference.

 

[Mark44]

You had to calculate math tasks at blank paper as well? What years was it?

Blank paper? Luxury!
We had to use a pine plank on which we scribbled with a bit of charcoal. We also had to walk to school 20 miles each way, in the snow, and both ways were uphill.

Today all engineering notebooks have grip papers.

Do you mean "graph" paper? Otherwise I don't know what you mean by "grip" papers.

 

[John Mcrain]

It is hard to read, because they do not teach handwriting in school anymore, and younger people today cannot read it.
Do you prefer to write in pencil or pen? It makes a difference.

Where they dont teach cursive? US?
In EU does..

Problem is cursive is not standardized,even if it is , legibility will be always smaller.

Do you mean "graph" paper? Otherwise I don't know what you mean by "grip" papers.

I mean grid.

 

[Vanadium 50]

We had to use a pine plank

You had a pine plank? You were lucky! We had to write on slabs of rocks that we had to smooth with our own tongues, after doing 26 hours of homework every night.

 

[MidgetDwarf]

I mean most..

I understand that Newton wrote at blank paper because at that time ruled paper didnt exist, but in 20century they eixist,so wonder why Einstein do math at blank paper.

All engineering notebooks have grid papers, usualy math/physisc/engineering use grid paper for writing.

What type of notebook do you use for engineering?

View attachment 320890

Einstein also wrote in with a pelikan. Particularly, either a pelikan 100, pelikan 100n, or pelikan 100nn model.

 

[phinds]

Einstein also wrote in with a pelikan. Particularly, either a pelikan 100, pelikan 100n, or pelikan 100nn model.

But not any of his seminal papers (the Pelikan wasn't sold until 1929). Wonder what he used for his early stuff, though I doubt it mattered to him since he would have been focused on WHAT he wrote, not what he wrote with.

 

[gmax137]

We had to write on slabs of rocks that we had to smooth with our own tongues, after doing 26 hours of homework every night.

Lucky bastard! The nuns cut our tongues out when we weren't looking. We had to write with particles of chalk dust we tweezed out of the erasers...

 

[Frabjous]

Lucky bastard! The nuns cut our tongues out when we weren't looking. We had to write with particles of chalk dust we tweezed out of the erasers...

What is this “writing” that you speak of? Physics is performed in one’s head, memorized and then recited to the masses. The succesful physicist learns to avoid the throne stones.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Erasers? You had erasers? ...

 

[PhDeezNutz]

Simple solution. Get printer paper. Put lined notebook paper underneath. Shine desk lamp. See lines through paper without having lines on paper.

I actually used to do this before I just put up a huge whiteboard.

 

[phinds]

I think this thread should be re-routed to something more substantial. I propose that we discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

 

[John Mcrain]