Stumped on mathematical proof

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a mathematical proof related to identities involving hyperbolic functions, specifically focusing on the term involving ##\coth## from a problem in Blundell and Blundell's textbook.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the validity of a ##\coth## identity and its implications for the relationship between ##\beta## and ##\omega##. There is an exploration of whether certain equations can hold true for all values of these variables.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively questioning the assumptions made in the proof and the correctness of the identities presented. Some have identified potential mistakes in the original expressions, leading to a productive examination of the relationships between the terms.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a missing factor of ##\beta## in one of the identities, which has prompted further scrutiny of the original problem setup and assumptions.

laser1
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From Blundell and Blundell Chapter 20 Problem 20.3.

I have proved that $$1-e^{-\beta \omega}=2\sinh\left(\frac{\beta \omega}{2}\right)$$ with no problem, but I am stuck on the ##\coth## term. I have tried to solve this but it gets messy and I'd rather not include them here. Thanks!
 
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If that ##\coth## identity holds, then:
$$e^{\beta \omega} + 1 = 2\beta$$
 
PeroK said:
If that ##\coth## identity holds, then:
$$e^{\beta \omega} + 1 = 2\beta$$
Okay, assuming that is true, surely that equation can't be true for all ##\beta## and ##\omega##?
 
laser1 said:
Okay, assuming that is true, surely that equation can't be true for all ##\beta## and ##\omega##?
That is clearly not an identity. Why do you think the textbook is infallible?
 
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PeroK said:
That is clearly not an identity. Why do you think the textbook is infallible?
Alr fair enough. As a mere undergrad, I always assume I am wrong first rather than the textbook! Of course, if I can't reason with the textbook I will ask here/my lecturer.
 
laser1 said:
Alr fair enough. As a mere undergrad, I always assume I am wrong first rather than the textbook! Of course, if I can't reason with the textbook I will ask here/my lecturer.
It's not a question of assumptions. Are ##\beta## and ##\omega## related in that way?
 
PeroK said:
It's not a question of assumptions. Are ##\beta## and ##\omega## related in that way?
I don't think so.
 
laser1 said:
I don't think so.
Perhaps check that first identity!
 
laser1 said:
I have proved that $$1-e^{-\beta \omega}=2\sinh\left(\frac{\beta \omega}{2}\right)$$ with no problem,
That's the mistake!
 
  • #10
PeroK said:
That's the mistake!
WhatsApp Image 2024-10-26 at 10.28.54.jpeg



Edit: oh yeah I see the denominator now yikes
 
  • #12
PeroK said:
It's not a question of assumptions. Are ##\beta## and ##\omega## related in that way?
The expression just looked wrong to me. There is a factor of ##\beta## missing in (20.51). It should be:
$$\frac{\beta \omega}{2}\coth\big (\frac{\beta \omega}{2}\big )$$
 
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  • #13
PeroK said:
The expression just looked wrong to me. There is a factor of ##\beta## missing in (20.51). It should be:
$$\frac{\beta \omega}{2}\coth\big (\frac{\beta \omega}{2}\big )$$
yeah I'm getting the same as you now. As in, I have the book answer, but the book is missing a factor of ##\beta## on the first term
 
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  • #14
I have not done the explicit computation (just visualized how the terms would combine), but apart from the missing ##\beta## the overall identity looks quite reasonable to me.
 

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