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News Supreme Court upholds Affordable Care Act

  1. Jun 25, 2015 #1


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  3. Jun 25, 2015 #2


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    So now it's going to come down to the election next year. If the Republicans keep control of Congress, and win the White House, they'll surely do something, after years of fulminating against the ACA. Since taking over the House of Representatives, they've voted to repeal the ACA, what, fifty times already?
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
  4. Jun 25, 2015 #3
  5. Jun 26, 2015 #4


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  6. Jun 27, 2015 #5


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    IMHO ACA should be world wide, why is that that a great nation like the USA should not embrace it.
  7. Jun 27, 2015 #6


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    "IMHO ACA should be world wide ..."

    You think the US' ACA should replace the UK's NHS?
  8. Jul 28, 2015 #7
    If you know a Canadian, chat with them about their national health care.

    They are prohibited from paying out of their own pocket for a doctor of their own choice.
    Hence many come to the US, especially the US Midwest, for care.

    If you want to know what ACA will become over time, just look at the Veteran's Administration and
    the lackluster care given to our military.
  9. Jul 28, 2015 #8
    They're mostly satisfied with it and overwhemingly prefer it to the US system before ACA.
  10. Jul 28, 2015 #9

    jim hardy

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    Is that something new ? The years i spent in Montreal wealthy people used private doctors and there was no shortage of either.
  11. Jul 28, 2015 #10


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    I'm inclined to count how people vote with their feet when gauging opinion:

  12. Jul 28, 2015 #11
    And the population is 35 million so that's 0.13% of them. And they don't all go to the US. And Canada's health care system is ranked above the US's (but still low). And polls show that they're generally content and think they have it better than the US. And in 2007 over 150,000 US citizens sought medical care outside the country.

    All I can think of is that Mean Girls quote: "Gretchen, stop trying to make fetch happen! It's not going to happen!"
  13. Jul 28, 2015 #12


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    Your statistics are from 2007, mine are from 2011. Oh wait, you didn't even post any statistics, you posted a tv show.

    So many Canadians come over the border to get health care in the US due to the long wait times in Canada.

    Last edited: Jul 28, 2015
  14. Jul 28, 2015 #13
    Yes, I didn't post any statistics but they just happen to be from 2007. (Edit: I even misread the number: it was estimated at 750,000, not 150,000. That's 0.25% of the population.) They're all easy to find, and I notice that you didn't see fit to question Finny's bold statement---not presented as an opinion---about the future of ACA*, so at least try to be consistent.

    So many, as in 0.13% of the population, or as the study claims, 1% of all patients? And, as I said above but you ignored so you could focus on my "post[ing] a tv show", it never says how many go to the US.

    I have no idea what you're trying to prove here. That Canada's health care system is worse than the USA's?

    *Namely, that it will turn into a health care system that has a....um...high....customer satisfaction rating!?
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2015
  15. Jul 29, 2015 #14


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    The population of Canada is 35 million, but the relevant figure for this discussion is not the population but the fraction seeking non-trivial health care; that is, to obtain something like cancer treatment not wrap a sprained angle.
  16. Jul 29, 2015 #15
    Ok, so find that fraction, find which countries they go to to get such treatments, and then compare that to the fraction of US residents who seek non-trivial treatment in other countries (for that matter, find out what fraction doesn't get treatment because they can't afford it). Then tell all those Canadians and all those experts who rank nations' health care systems that they're wrong and it's actually a bunch of guys on a physics forum who really know what they're talking about.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
  17. Aug 2, 2015 #16


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    Appeal to authority, appeal to emotion, strawmen in flames.
  18. Aug 3, 2015 #17
    Failure to say what the relevant fraction---which you presumably know---is.

    My post is only a strawman if you're not actually trying to argue that the US's health care system (before ACA especially) is better than Canada's. Everything about your initial post suggests you are, but if you're not, then that's fine. If you are, then you've posted exactly one number, moved the goalposts when it completely backfired (see, I can look up lists of logical fallacies too), and then done nothing since.
  19. Aug 4, 2015 #18
    The very idea of comparing "Canada" and "United States" health systems is dangerous. Medical care in the US varies widely in effectiveness, cost and efficiency. Canada's population is 1/10th of the US, they have both different demographics and different health challenges. There is no doubt in my mind that a Kaiser or Geisinger represent an improvement over anything in Canada, but at the same time most people in the US aren't served by health systems running that efficiently..

    Comparing health care in the US pre/post ACA makes more sense, though I'm not sure it will lead to much in this venue.
  20. Aug 4, 2015 #19
    I agree, which is why I have no problem deferring to authorities who spend much more time thinking about it than (most likely) any of us.

    Isn't that how this all started? That after ACA, American health care will go down the drain and resemble the supposedly much worse Canadian system? I may have jumped the gun; maybe the post I first responded to was just warning us that our health care system will remain relatively poor, but will be improved overall with longer wait times to see a specialist*. I think it's more likely that it was just a repetition of an old talking point that, as even the statistics claiming to support it show, doesn't hold up. Either way, you're right that it won't lead anywhere.

    *Which would be funny because maybe that is exactly what will happen.
  21. Mar 24, 2016 #20
    It's important to keep in mind that the Supreme Court doesn't exist to decide the merit of policy - just the legality. It's Congress' job to make (and repeal) laws. Not the Supreme Court.

    The Supreme Court decided that ACA was constitutional, and I would agree with that decision. People are free to say that they don't like the law or that it is harmful to the country, but objectively speaking, ACA isn't doing anything unconstitutional.

    Subsidized health insurance is not illegal. Otherwise Lyndon Johnson's Medicare and George W. Bush's Part D prescription drug program would have been struck down. Charging fees and taxes is not illegal. The government has done it on a wide variety of occasions. Mandates are not illegal. People are mandated to go to school, have car insurance, have fire insurance and so on.

    Back in Franklin Roosevelt's time, it was decided that government programs were acceptable so long as the constitution did not prohibit it. If ACA were to be made unconstitutional, probably half of the government programs since 1930 would be made illegal too.

    I myself personally don't think ACA is a great law, but it's constitutional.

    Also, where were these "strict constitutionalists" when the Patriot Act was being signed?
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