Surface treating mild steel for hard vacuum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of using mild steel for hard vacuum applications, specifically in the context of converting an old fire safe into a vacuum deposition chamber for aluminum coating of optics. Participants explore surface treatments or coatings to mitigate outgassing issues associated with mild steel and consider the challenges posed by the structure and thickness of the chamber.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that mild steel is generally unsuitable for hard vacuum due to outgassing but questions whether surface treatments could make it viable if the structural integrity is maintained.
  • Another participant inquires about the required level of vacuum and suggests heating the chamber during the outgassing phase as a potential strategy.
  • A participant mentions aiming for ultra-high vacuum (UHV) conditions, referencing a pressure target of 10-7 Pa, and discusses the challenges of heating the thick walls of the chamber to facilitate outgassing.
  • There is a suggestion to use a low pressure arc to irradiate the walls with UV to accelerate outgassing, alongside the idea of vaporizing a substance inside the chamber.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the likelihood of success in achieving the desired vacuum conditions with the proposed setup.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the feasibility of using mild steel for hard vacuum applications, and multiple competing views regarding potential solutions and challenges remain evident.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the material composition of the chamber walls and the energy requirements for heating, as well as the implications of outgassing on achieving the desired vacuum levels.

norlesh
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I understand mild steel is very bad at out gassing so is never usually considered for hard vacuum applications. But if the decision was constrained by other factors would it be possible to apply a surface treatment or coating to the internal walls of the vessel - am I correct in assuming that as long as the chambers structure is up to the task of withstanding the external pressure any internal surface skin only needs to withstand the small non-accumulative forces of individual atoms 'attempting' to out gas from the inner thickness of the walls?

The 'other factors' constraining my decision to use mild steel is I have an old fire safe with 0.23 m3 internal space that I would like to turn into some sort of vacuum deposition chamber Oh and this thing is located on the second floor of my building and probably weighs in at a tonne so it's not like I can send it to get plated ;).
 
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Gonna be a tough go. What level of vacuum do you need? Can you heat it up in the initial outgassing phase?
 
Well my initial goal is to be able to do aluminium coating of optics - still looking for a reliable number on what pressure is required for this. The upper/lower limit of UHV seems like a good target to shoot for which according to wikipedia starts at 10-7 Pa.

As for heating this thing, the walls are 850 mm thick - not sure if its all steal or if there is some kind of refractory in between but either way it would take obscene amounts of energy to raise the temperature. Perhaps I could accelerate the out gassing by initiating a low pressure arc to irradiate the walls with UV.

Maybe vaporizing a couple of hundred grams of a suitable substance (2.4 m2 surface area) on the inside could work assuming it didn't fuse the door permanently closed that is.
 
I am not optimistic regarding your success.
 

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