How Do Two Masses and Three Springs Interact with a Dashpot?

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves two masses connected by three springs and a dashpot, with the goal of finding the equations of motion for the system. The context is rooted in dynamics and oscillatory motion, specifically examining the interactions between the masses and the forces exerted by the springs and dashpot.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss deriving equations of motion using force balance, questioning the treatment of relative velocity, and exploring the implications of damping on the system's behavior. There is an attempt to express the relative velocity in terms of the displacements of the masses.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, sharing their equations and reasoning. Some have provided initial equations of motion, while others are clarifying concepts related to relative velocity and the forces acting on the masses. There is a focus on ensuring the correct formulation of the equations before proceeding further.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of the need for a diagram to better understand the setup. Participants are also considering the implications of initial conditions and the behavior of the system over time, particularly regarding the relative motion of the masses.

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Homework Statement



Two particles, each of mass M, are hung between three identical springs. Each spring is massless and has spring constant k. Neglect gravity. The masses are connected as shown to a dashpot of negligible mass.

The dashpot exerts a force of bv, where v is the relative velocity of its two ends. The force opposes the motion. Let x1 and x2 be the displacement of the two masses from equilibrium.


a. Find the equation of motion for each mass.

b. Show that the equation of motion can be solved in terms of the new dependent variables y1 = x1 + x2 and y1 = x1 - x2.

c. Show that if the masses are initially at rest and mass 1 is given initial velocity v0, the motion of the masses after a sufficiently long time is
x1=x2
= (v0/2ω)* sin(ωt)

Evaluate ω.

Homework Equations



x.. + γx.+ ω2x = 0

x = Ae-γt/2cos(ωt + ∅)

The Attempt at a Solution



I think I managed to get the first two by just using different F = -kx formulae and adding -bv to it.

The second part I just added and subtracted the equations to get:
y..1 + ω2y1 + [itex]\frac{2bv}{m}[/itex] = 0

and

y..2 + 3ω2y2 = 0

I think these are right, as far as I know. The thing is, I'm not sure how to proceed from here. I tried using:

x = Ae-γt/2cos(ωt + ∅)

I can get it very close to the answer, but I don't think that's how you're supposed to do this... using what I got in part 2 would be more relevant, I think.
 
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Seeing the diagram or at least its description would be helpful.
 
Sorry, this is the image:

35cf45ff-190f-4bc2-acc7-636af40a0b06.png
 
Could you show your equations for a) and the derivation for b)?
 
ma1=-kx1-k(x1-x2) - bv

ma2=-kx2-k(x2-x1) - bv

These were my first two equations of motion.

I just added and subtracted them, using k = ω2m to get the equations for 2.

Quick question: can I take relative velocity v as equal to the derivative of y2 with respect to time?
 
But what is v in your equations? And how come it is the same in both equations?
 
"... where v is the relative velocity of its two ends. The force opposes the motion."

So yeah, it should be the same for both cases – both magnitude and direction.
 
"Relative velocity" is relative to the velocity of the opposite end. It is the same (= zero) only of the ends have the same velocity. Express it in terms of x1 and x2 for both ends.
 
voko said:
"Relative velocity" is relative to the velocity of the opposite end. It is the same (= zero) only of the ends have the same velocity. Express it in terms of x1 and x2 for both ends.

Yeah, it's the relative velocity of one end of the dashpot to the other (thus the relative velocity of one mass to another).

So for the first mass it'll be derivate of x2 minus that of x1 with respect to time... and for the second mass it'll be negative of that? But the force opposes the motion. Therefore, for the first mass that is displaced by x1, the force will be negative (to the left). Similarly, if the second mass is displaced by x2, the force will be negative as well. Are my signs wrong?

If relative velocity is in terms of x2 - x1, then I could express it in terms of y2, right?

On another note, in the third part, if x1 = x2 then relative velocity should be 0.
 
  • #10
a.man said:
Yeah, it's the relative velocity of one end of the dashpot to the other (thus the relative velocity of one mass to another).

So for the first mass it'll be derivate of x2 minus that of x1 with respect to time... and for the second mass it'll be negative of that? But the force opposes the motion.

I am with you till this point.

Therefore, for the first mass that is displaced by x1, the force will be negative (to the left). Similarly, if the second mass is displaced by x2, the force will be negative as well. Are my signs wrong?

This is less clear. The net force acting on either mass is the sum of three forces, two due to springs and one due to damping. I think should write down the equations in terms of x1 and x2 just for clarity.

If relative velocity is in terms of x2 - x1, then I could express it in terms of y2, right?

Yes, but, again, you should write down the equations in terms of x1 and x2 first.
 

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