Talked to my local cop about his sat phone comms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the comparison between HF antennas and satellite phones for communication, particularly in the context of law enforcement and emergency services. Participants explore the advantages and disadvantages of each technology, considering factors such as infrastructure dependence, range, cost, and performance in various environments.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight that HF antennas are bulky, power-hungry, and reliant on ionospheric conditions, while satellite phones do not share these limitations.
  • Others argue that HF systems provide independence from complex external infrastructure, which could be beneficial for rural law enforcement.
  • One participant questions the utility of HF if it cannot reach a base station, suggesting that satellite phones might offer better coverage in rural areas.
  • There is a discussion about the cost-effectiveness of HF systems for urban versus rural police departments, with some suggesting that HF might be more feasible for larger departments.
  • Concerns are raised about the limited availability of satellite phones due to bandwidth issues and the potential vulnerability of satellite communications during disasters.
  • Participants mention the role of repeaters in extending the range of UHF communications, particularly in rural settings.
  • One participant expresses a personal interest in minimal infrastructure communication solutions, emphasizing the importance of reliability in adverse conditions.
  • There is a suggestion that the comparison between HF and satellite phones should be based on specific requirements and budget considerations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on which communication method is superior. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the effectiveness and practicality of HF antennas versus satellite phones.

Contextual Notes

Participants note various limitations such as the dependence on definitions of range and performance, as well as the potential for interference in HF communications. The discussion also highlights the need for specific requirements to make a meaningful comparison between the two technologies.

houlahound
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Have always drooled over these awesome and mega priced babies until they started dissspearing. Cop says they are being replaced by sat phones which I thought were a nightmare to get a connection and crazy expensive. He would not discuss the performance.

So awesome HF antenna versus sat phone, can someone explain the pros and cons excluding digital encryption.

What they had that was pure awesome;

http://www.codanradio.com/product/9350-vehicle-whip/
 
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houlahound said:
So awesome HF antenna versus sat phone, can someone explain the pros and cons excluding digital encryption.

HF -- limited range, totally reliant on ionospheric propagation conditions
bulky - both the transceiver and antenna
power hungry
limited bandwidth
very prone to interference from other spectrum users
to name a few things

Sat phones -- none of the aboveDave
 
K, makes sense. I think one positive tho is the lack of dependence on complex external infrastructure.

in a HF station you totally own it, that has to be an advantage for a rural cop.

What you think of the whip in the link, hopefully if they are obsolete I can get one cheap. Look good on the front of my truck.

a well engineered product IMO.
 
houlahound said:
in a HF station you totally own it, that has to be an advantage for a rural cop.

But its useless if it can't reach the base station, aye
houlahound said:
What you think of the whip in the link, hopefully if they are obsolete I can get one cheap. Look good on the front of my truck.

and you intend to make actual use of it ?
Are you licenced for HF operations ?
 
houlahound said:
K, makes sense. I think one positive tho is the lack of dependence on complex external infrastructure.

in a HF station you totally own it, that has to be an advantage for a rural cop.

What you think of the whip in the link, hopefully if they are obsolete I can get one cheap. Look good on the front of my truck.

a well engineered product IMO.
I would think it was cheaper for a city cop. A rural cop needs good coverage which sat phone provides. In a city the sat phone coverage might not be as good (inside buildings, whatever). A city can afford a good HF system with multiple transceivers. This would be cheaper than an army of sat phones. (Of course an army of cell phones might be cheaper still.)

There are a limited number of sat phones available in the world due to bandwidth and coverage issues. Handing one to each of the 50,000 NYPD employees might not be the best use of resources. But giving one to each of the six officers in Podunk Montana is likely cheaper than a custom designed HF setup which would rival the New York setup in base station complexity due to terrain considerations.

In addition the NYPD needs to be able to keep working in disasters in a way rural PDs might not. An orbital event (Solar Flare, etc. or something more sinister) might wipe out the sat phone connection. It would be hard to wipe out redundant, hardened HF base stations.

Were I in charge of a large PD's communications system, I would try for an HF system backed by regular cell service with a contract specifying emergency priority over regular clients.

Were I in charge of a small PD's communications system I would look at sat phones (or cell phones if the region had great coverage) with a base station kept in storage just in case.

In between the two is where the creativity lies. If the department is too big for everyone to know each other, protocols might start arguing for more complexity than simple cell phones.
 
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Civilian sat phones is like $5 to connect, which is not fast, then a conversation like , " hi honey can you pi k up some milk and breed on your way home from work" is about $20.
 
Jeff Rosenbury said:
A city can afford a good HF system with multiple transceivers. This would be cheaper than an army of sat phones. (Of course an army of cell phones might be cheaper still.)

VHF and UHF and the main freq's used by cops and other emergency services
the cops here and in NZ used to mainly use VHF but that has largely been dropped in favour of UHF ( 400 MHz band)
 
UHF would lack range in rural??

HF users have had to step in for police and emergency services in natural disasters. In July my club gets a $500 donation for doing comms at a big motor bike race, the emergency services completely failed. The club was given a trial last year and it was perfect hence the financial gift and ask/beg for us to come back.
 
houlahound said:
UHF would lack range in rural??

in extreme rural, eg outback Australia, yes.
general rural, no... you seem to have forgotten that there is a huge repeater network in most countries ( well western ones at least)
that will pick up the signal from the vehicle up to at least 100 km. And with lots of repeaters in the network, it fills in the dead spots
in system coverage
Dave
 
  • #10
Good point re repeaters.
My personal interest in radio is minimal infrastructure ie if everything went to crap what's left that will work.
 
  • #11
houlahound said:
Have always drooled over these awesome and mega priced babies until they started dissspearing. Cop says they are being replaced by sat phones which I thought were a nightmare to get a connection and crazy expensive. He would not discuss the performance.

So awesome HF antenna versus sat phone, can someone explain the pros and cons excluding digital encryption.

What they had that was pure awesome;

http://www.codanradio.com/product/9350-vehicle-whip/
The comparison is only worth making when you have defined the actual requirement. VHF is cheap and will work over a range of 20 miles easily, if your base station is well elevated and there's nothing much in the way. A sat phone will work all over the world. Which do you need and how much money do you have?
I wouldn't have thought that HF would be very useful because, firstly, it isn't designated for mobile comms (afaiaa) and the possibility of frequent interference from distant stations is always there. VHF propagation is more 'line of sight' (well defined service area), most of the time and it's also legal if you use the appropriate channels.
I do sympathise, if you are really lusting after a sat phone, though. :smile: Go into the shop, open your wallet and say "help yourself".