Temperature of beta decay radioisotope (Sr-90)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the development of a Monte Carlo simulation to determine the temperature of the beta radioisotope Strontium-90 (Sr-90) due to its decay processes. Participants explore the relationship between beta decay and temperature, the specifics of the decay chain, and the implications for applications such as radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTGs).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the relevance of temperature in the context of beta decay, suggesting uncertainty about its implications.
  • Another participant explains that the temperature of Sr-90 will increase due to collisions of emitted electrons with the surrounding medium.
  • There is acknowledgment that the time required to develop the simulation depends on various factors, including the specific configuration and environmental conditions.
  • Participants discuss how the temperature of the Sr-90 will initially rise to a peak and then decrease over time as decay products accumulate.
  • One participant outlines the decay chain of Sr-90 and its application in RTGs, emphasizing the importance of calculating energy deposition to determine temperature.
  • Concerns are raised about accurately calculating the energy of each decay, particularly due to the non-linear nature of the spectra and the escape of neutrinos.
  • Literature values for the average energy of emitted electrons are mentioned, with a participant noting that using average values may yield different results for energy deposition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between beta decay and temperature, and there is no consensus on the best approach to calculate energy deposition or the implications for temperature determination. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of the simulation and its outcomes.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the environment and the specifics of the decay process, which may affect the calculations and results of the simulation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those involved in computational physics, nuclear engineering, or anyone researching the thermal properties of radioisotopes and their applications in energy generation.

Dimitris Catzis
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Hi,
I want to develop a Monte Carlo simulation to determine the temperature of a beta radioisotope (Sr-90) of a given mass for my master thesis in Computational Physics. I am rookie to simulations. How much time will take to develop such a code.

Thnaks a lot
 
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What do mean by temperature? I doubt if it has anything to do with its decay.
 
Hi,
thanks for your response.

A given mass of Sr-90 will has a raised temperature due to the collisions of the electrons of the beta decay with the medium (Sr-90)
 
Dimitris Catzis said:
How much time will take to develop such a code.

A very long time, since there is no general answer. It's specific to the configuration you have.
 
Also, it depends on time (as well as configuration and environment, as @Vanadium 50 noted). If you start with a chunk of isotope at some temperature, it will increase to some peak, then slowly decrease, as more and more final decay result accumulates.
 
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PAllen said:
Also, it depends on time (as well as cinfiguration and environment, as @Vanadium 50 noted). If you start with a chunk of isotope at some temperature, it will increase to some peak, then slowly decrease, as more and more final decay result accumulates.

That's the point of my research, to determine the thermal power degradation with time. The environment is space. I want to predict the capability of Sr-90 for RTG applications
 
This looks like it's going to be one of those threads where the OP only sloooowwwwly tells us what the question is.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
This looks like it's going to be one of those threads where the OP only sloooowwwwly tells us what the question is.

Sorry about that! As i said i am rookie!
 
Well, you can fix it.

What is the decay chain?
What do you know about the system? What is its purpose? How large is the sample? What do you know about its environment, especially in terms of thermal considerations?
 
  • #10
Sr-90--->(~30 Years beta)--->Y-90---->(~2.8 Days beta)--->Zr-90(stable). the main component is a sturdy container of a radioactive material (the fuel).Thermocouples are placed in the walls of the container, with the outer end of each thermocouple connected to a heat sink . Radioactive decay of the fuel produces heat. It is the temperature difference between the fuel and the heat sink that allows the thermocouples to generate electricity. The mass of the radioactive material is a few kg. The environment is space.
As first task i want to calculate the energy deposition into a mass. Then i would figure out how i can determine the temperature,
 
  • #11
If the container is shielded well then all the energy of the electrons will be absorbed and heat the material. After a few weeks (=probably before launch already) there will be one Y decay per Sr decay so you can add simply the energies.
 
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  • #12
mfb said:
If the container is shielded well then all the energy of the electrons will be absorbed and heat the material. After a few weeks (=probably before launch already) there will be one Y decay per Sr decay so you can add simply the energies.

Hi, thanks for your reply

Yes, i thought that! My problem now is to determine with a Monte Carlo the energy of each decay for the electrons as all the neutrinos escape.and the spectra is not linear.
 
  • #13
You can calculate it, but I'm sure there are literature values about the average energy the electrons.
 
  • #14
mfb said:
You can calculate it, but I'm sure there are literature values about the average energy the electrons.

I read somewhere that taking the average energy of the electrons to calculate the energy deposition is quite different results.
 
  • #15
The slow drip, drip, drip as the question slowly pours out...

Dimitris Catzis said:
I read somewhere

Where?
 
  • #16
Vanadium 50 said:
The slow drip, drip, drip as the question slowly pours out...
Where?

Nuclear Batteries and Radioisotopes (Authors: Prelas, M., Boraas, M., De La Torre Aguilar, F., Seelig, J.-D., Tchakoua Tchouaso, M., Wisniewski, D.)
page 97
 

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