Tension in the string holding a falling chain

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a uniform chain suspended by a string, where one end is released and falls under gravity. The objective is to determine the tension in the string as the chain falls a distance y. The subject area includes dynamics and momentum principles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between the lengths of the chain segments and the implications of the chain's motion. There are attempts to express the tension in terms of the chain's weight and the change in momentum. Questions arise regarding the speeds of different points on the chain and how they relate to each other during the fall.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations of the chain's motion being explored. Some participants have offered insights into the differences in speeds of the chain segments, while others are questioning the assumptions made about the motion and acceleration of the chain.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the implications of the chain's free fall and the resulting changes in tension. There are indications of confusion regarding the acceleration and speed of different points on the chain, as well as the effects of the mass transfer between the segments.

  • #31
Vibhor said:
So that is how thrust force on left part is coming out to be λgy ?
yes
 
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  • #32
Vibhor said:
Which part of the string is in free fall ?Is left part in free fall ?
No parts of the left side are in free fall. All parts of the left side are at rest. The left side is just getting longer as more links are added to the left side.
Are you suggesting that only the right part is in free fall ?
Yes
Why do we get correct answer by assuming left part to be in free fall ?
Can you show how you get the answer assuming the left side is in free fall?
 
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  • #33
TSny said:
Can you show how you get the answer assuming the left side is in free fall?

Thrust force is λv2 . If we assume tip of left string to be in free fall ,it falls by a distance y/2 . Hence the speed is √(2g(y/2)). This is how I got the thrust force λgy .
 
  • #34
Vibhor said:
Thrust force is λv2 . If we assume tip of left string to be in free fall ,it falls by a distance y/2 . Hence the speed is √(2g(y/2)). This is how I got the thrust force λgy .
I'm afraid I don't follow your argument.

haruspex outlined how to get the force in #27.

The rate, dm/dt, at which mass on the right is coming to rest is the rate at which mass on the right is reaching the (moving) blue line. This is λ times the velocity of the right side relative to the blue line: dm/dt = λ(vred dot - vblue line) =λ(v - v/2) = λv/2, where v is the velocity of free fall of the right side: v = √(2gy). The magnitude of the force required to bring elements of the right side to rest is equal to the magnitude of the rate of change of momentum of these elements:
F = (dm/dt)⋅v = (λv/2)⋅v = λv2/2 = λgy.
 
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  • #35
TSny said:
The rate, dm/dt, at which mass on the right is coming to rest is the rate at which mass on the right is reaching the (moving) blue line. This is λ times the velocity of the right side relative to the blue line: dm/dt = λ(vred dot - vblue line) =λ(v - v/2) = λv/2, where v is the velocity of free fall of the right side: v = √(2gy). The magnitude of the force required to bring elements of the right side to rest is equal to the magnitude of the rate of change of momentum of these elements:
F = (dm/dt)⋅v = (λv/2)⋅v = λv2/2 = λgy.

Thanks .This clears up the confusion.
 
  • #36
TSny said:
I'm afraid I don't follow your argument.

Now ,even I don't follow my argument ?:)

The remarkable thing is that ,despite getting the dynamics of the problem wrong in every step ,I got the correct answer in first try o_O .
 
  • #37
Vibhor said:
The remarkable thing is that ,despite getting the dynamics of the problem wrong in every step ,I got the correct answer in first try o_O .
That's happened to me before, too.
 
  • #38
TSny said:
That's happened to me before, too.

:smile:

Thanks a lot Sir .

Thank you very much @haruspex .
 

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