The chain rule (General version)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the chain rule in multivariable calculus, specifically in the context of differentiating a function defined by other functions of multiple variables. Participants explore the differentiation of the function $$g(s, t) = f(s^2-t^2, t^2-s^2)$$ and its relation to the equation $$t\frac{dg}{ds}+s\frac{dg}{dt}=0$$.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Participants present their calculations for $$\frac{dg}{ds}$$ and $$\frac{dg}{dt}$$, showing the application of the chain rule.
  • Some participants note that the chain rule for multivariable functions involves partial derivatives, suggesting that $$\frac{\partial g}{\partial s}$$ should be used instead of $$\frac{dg}{ds}$$.
  • There is a mention of a tree diagram to visualize the relationships between the variables, with some participants affirming its correctness.
  • A reference to external resources, specifically "Pauls Online Notes," is provided as a potential aid for understanding the chain rule better.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the calculations presented but differ on the notation used, specifically regarding the use of partial derivatives versus total derivatives. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the preferred notation and its implications.

Contextual Notes

There is an indication that some assumptions about the differentiability of the functions involved may not be explicitly stated, and the discussion does not resolve the implications of using different notations for derivatives.

Petrus
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Exempel 6: If $$g(s, t) = f(s^2-t^2, t^2-s^2)$$ and f is differentiable, show that g satisfies the equation
$$t\frac{dg}{ds}+s\frac{dg}{dt}=0$$
I always try solve it before I look 'soloution' so this is how we both did it. (remember this is a exempel in my book so they show how to solve it but they did not make any tree driagram etc.)
$$\frac{dg}{ds}=\frac{df}{dx}\frac{dx}{ds}+\frac{df}{dy}\frac{dy}{ds}=\frac{df}{dx}(2s)+\frac{df}{dy}(-2s)$$
$$\frac{dg}{dt}=\frac{df}{dx}\frac{dx}{dt}+\frac{df}{dy}\frac{dy}{dt}=\frac{df}{dx}(-2t)+\frac{df}{dy}(2t)$$
$$t\frac{dg}{ds}+s\frac{dg}{dt}=\frac{df}{dx}(2st)+ \frac{df}{dy}(-2st) - \frac{df}{dx}(2st)+\frac{df}{dy}(2st)=0$$
This is what I made extra cause I want to be specefic. I want to citat from my book:
"We got n variables ($$x_1,x_2,...x_n$$ (in this problem we got 2) and each of these $$x_j$$ is a differentiable function of the m vavariables $$t_1, t_2,...,t_m$$ then u is a function of $$t_1,t_2,...,t_m$$ (in our it will be 2 if I understand correct but I strugle on that one)"
So now I did write about these note and got same answer as the soloution. Then I wanted to draw a 'tree driagram' and I did draw it like this, correct me if I do it wrong View attachment 735

Regards,
 

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Petrus said:
Exempel 6: If $$g(s, t) = f(s^2-t^2, t^2-s^2)$$ and f is differentiable, show that g satisfies the equation
$$t\frac{dg}{ds}+s\frac{dg}{dt}=0$$
I always try solve it before I look 'soloution' so this is how we both did it. (remember this is a exempel in my book so they show how to solve it but they did not make any tree driagram etc.)
$$\frac{dg}{ds}=\frac{df}{dx}\frac{dx}{ds}+\frac{df}{dy}\frac{dy}{ds}=\frac{df}{dx}(2s)+\frac{df}{dy}(-2s)$$
$$\frac{dg}{dt}=\frac{df}{dx}\frac{dx}{dt}+\frac{df}{dy}\frac{dy}{dt}=\frac{df}{dx}(-2t)+\frac{df}{dy}(2t)$$
$$t\frac{dg}{ds}+s\frac{dg}{dt}=\frac{df}{dx}(2st)+ \frac{df}{dy}(-2st) - \frac{df}{dx}(2st)+\frac{df}{dy}(2st)=0$$
This is what I made extra cause I want to be specefic. I want to citat from my book:
"We got n variables ($$x_1,x_2,...x_n$$ (in this problem we got 2) and each of these $$x_j$$ is a differentiable function of the m vavariables $$t_1, t_2,...,t_m$$ then u is a function of $$t_1,t_2,...,t_m$$ (in our it will be 2 if I understand correct but I strugle on that one)"
So now I did write about these note and got same answer as the soloution. Then I wanted to draw a 'tree driagram' and I did draw it like this, correct me if I do it wrong View attachment 735

Regards,

Hi Petrus, :)

Not sure whether you still need to clarify this question but here goes. Everything is correct, except the chain rule for multivariable functions involve partial derivatives; so I would have written,

\[\frac{\partial g}{\partial s}=\frac{\partial f}{\partial x}\frac{\partial x}{\partial s}+\frac{\partial f}{\partial y}\frac{\partial y}{\partial s}=2s\frac{\partial f}{dx}-2s\frac{\partial f}{\partial y}\]

and so on. The tree diagram is also correct. A nice reference about the chain rule with similar kind of examples is,

Pauls Online Notes : Calculus III - Chain Rule
 
Sudharaka said:
Hi Petrus, :)

Not sure whether you still need to clarify this question but here goes. Everything is correct, except the chain rule for multivariable functions involve partial derivatives; so I would have written,

\[\frac{\partial g}{\partial s}=\frac{\partial f}{\partial x}\frac{\partial x}{\partial s}+\frac{\partial f}{\partial y}\frac{\partial y}{\partial s}=2s\frac{\partial f}{dx}-2s\frac{\partial f}{\partial y}\]

and so on. The tree diagram is also correct. A nice reference about the chain rule with similar kind of examples is,

Pauls Online Notes : Calculus III - Chain Rule
Hello Sudharaka,
Thanks once again for the help and taking your time!:) That link seems really good I will read about it when I got time and I will be back if I got any question!:)

Regards,
$$|\pi\rangle$$
 
Petrus said:
Hello Sudharaka,
Thanks once again for the help and taking your time!:) That link seems really good I will read about it when I got time and I will be back if I got any question!:)

Regards,
$$|\pi\rangle$$

Glad to be of help. :)
 

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