Derivative of a function is equal to zero

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivative of a function and the conditions under which it equals zero. Participants explore the relationships between different variables and derivatives in the context of a function defined in terms of multiple variables, specifically focusing on the implications of taking derivatives with respect to different variables.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a function ##g(t)## defined as the derivative of another function ##y## with respect to time ##t##, and questions the validity of their steps leading to the conclusion that the derivative equals zero.
  • Another participant suggests that the confusion arises from mixing the functions ##y(t)## and ##y(x)##, and emphasizes the need to clearly denote the variables involved in the derivatives.
  • A participant requests clarification on the steps taken in the initial post, indicating that there may be missing information or assumptions that need to be addressed.
  • There is a mention of an edit made to correct a step in the original post, indicating an ongoing refinement of the argument.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion remains unresolved, with participants expressing different interpretations of the derivative relationships and the steps involved in the calculations. No consensus is reached regarding the correctness of the initial claims or the subsequent clarifications.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully clarified the assumptions underlying their calculations, and there appears to be ambiguity in the definitions of the functions and their dependencies on the variables.

kent davidge
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Suppose:

- that I have a function ##g(t)## such that ##g(t) = \frac{dy}{dt} ##;
- that ##y = y(x)## and ##x = x(t)##;
- that I take the derivative of ##g## with respect to ##y##.

One one hand this is ##\frac{dg}{dy} = \frac{dg}{dx}\frac{dx}{dy} = \frac{d^2 y}{dxdt}\frac{dx}{dy}##. On the other hand, if I operate right into ##g = \frac{dy}{dt}## with ##d/dy##, it is ##(d/dy)(dy/dt) = (d/dt)(dy/dy) = 0##. Where is my mistake?
 
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Sorry, I have edited my post to correct a step
 
You confused ##y(t)## with ##y(x)##. Write the functions with their variables: ##g=\dfrac{d}{dt}y(t)=g(t)## and ##y=y(x)## and with ##x=x(t)## you have ##y=y(x(t))##.
$$
\dfrac{d}{dy} g = \dfrac{d}{dy} \dfrac{dy}{dt} y(t)= \dfrac{d}{dt}y(t)=\dfrac{d}{dx}y(x) \dfrac{d}{dt}x(t)
$$
What was the part in the middle? Sorry, which was the other approach?
 
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First post is now gone, no question to answer.
 
Restored for readability.
 

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