The cofactors of elements for every determinant

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the cofactors of the elements in the second row of a 3x3 determinant. Participants express confusion about the process of calculating cofactors, evaluating determinants, and understanding the signs associated with these calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express uncertainty about how to begin finding the cofactors and the necessary steps involved.
  • One participant explains the process of finding the minor for the first element in the second row and how to determine its cofactor, noting the importance of sign alternation.
  • Another participant questions the sign of the first cofactor, suggesting that it should be positive based on their calculations, leading to a discussion about the correct application of signs in cofactor calculations.
  • Participants share their calculations for the cofactors of the second and third elements in the second row, with some arriving at different results than those presented in a reference book.
  • There is a discussion about the importance of parentheses in calculations, with participants correcting each other on the proper evaluation of determinants.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the sign of the second cofactor, leading to clarification about the alternating signs of cofactors in a determinant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct values of the cofactors, as differing calculations and interpretations of signs lead to multiple viewpoints. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct answers for the cofactors.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference a book for expected answers, but discrepancies arise in their calculations, highlighting potential misunderstandings in the application of cofactor rules and determinant evaluation.

Tonia1
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Find the cofactors of the elements in the second row of every determinant:
$$\begin{vmatrix}-2 & 0 & 1 \\ 1 & 2 & 0 \\ 4 & 2 & 1 \end{vmatrix}$$
I am going to guess that I need to look at each number in the second horizontal row to see what i and j are for finding the cofactors of the elements. I am a bit confused as to where to start this problem at. I am familiar with evaluating a 2X2 determinant but finding a cofactor of an element, evaluating a determinant, and understanding Cramer's Rule, is very confusing to me right now.
 
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Tonia said:
Find the cofactors of the elements in the second row of every determinant:
$$\begin{vmatrix}-2 & 0 & 1 \\ 1 & 2 & 0 \\ 4 & 2 & 1 \end{vmatrix}$$
I am going to guess that I need to look at each number in the second horizontal row to see what i and j are for finding the cofactors of the elements. I am a bit confused as to where to start this problem at. I am familiar with evaluating a 2X2 determinant but finding a cofactor of an element, evaluating a determinant, and understanding Cramer's Rule, is very confusing to me right now.

Hi Tonia, welcome to MHB! ;)

Let's start with the cofactor of the first element in the second row.
First we find the so called minor, which is the 2x2 determinant when we remove both the row and the column of the element.
That is:
$$\begin{vmatrix}\cancel{-2} & 0 & 1 \\ \cancel 1 & \cancel 2 & \cancel 0 \\ \cancel 4 & 2 & 1 \end{vmatrix}
= \begin{vmatrix}0 & 1 \\ 2 & 1 \end{vmatrix}
$$
The cofactor is the minor multiplied by -1 if it's in an 'alternate' position.
Top left is +1 and the element below 'alternates' to -1.
So the cofactor for the first element in the second row is:
$$-\begin{vmatrix}0 & 1 \\ 2 & 1 \end{vmatrix}$$
 
I like Serena said:
Hi Tonia, welcome to MHB! ;)

Let's start with the cofactor of the first element in the second row.
First we find the so called minor, which is the 2x2 determinant when we remove both the row and the column of the element.
That is:
$$\begin{vmatrix}\cancel{-2} & 0 & 1 \\ \cancel 1 & \cancel 2 & \cancel 0 \\ \cancel 4 & 2 & 1 \end{vmatrix}
= \begin{vmatrix}0 & 1 \\ 2 & 1 \end{vmatrix}
$$
The cofactor is the minor multiplied by -1 if it's in an 'alternate' position.
Top left is +1 and the element below 'alternates' to -1.
So the cofactor for the first element in the second row is:
$$-\begin{vmatrix}0 & 1 \\ 2 & 1 \end{vmatrix}$$

Why does your example show that the first cofactor must be negative even though the answer in the book says positive 2? I do not know why I did not get positive 2 for the first cofactor, or positive 4 for the 3rd cofactor.

I followed your explanation and got this for the 1st cofactor:
I crossed out -2, 1, 4 and 1, 2, 0 and then got this for the 2X2 determinant:
= -/0 1 top row 2 1 bottom row/ = -(0)(1) - (1)(2) = -0-2 = -2 (should be positive 2 like the answer in the book).

I got this for the 2nd cofactor:
I crossed out 0, 2, 2 and 1, 2, 0 and then got this for the 2X2 determinant: - (Vertical bar here) -2 1 (top horizontal row) 4 1 (bottom horizontal row) = - /(-2)(1)-4(1)/
= -/-2-4/ = -/-6/ = -6 (same as answer shown in book).

I got this for the 3rd cofactor:
I crossed out 1, 0, 1 and 1, 2, 0 and then got this for the 2X2 determinant: - /-2 0 (top row) 4 2 (bottom row)/ = -/(-2)(2) - (4)(0)/ = -/-4 - 0/ = -4 (should be positive 4 like the answer in the book).
 
Tonia said:
Why does your example show that the first cofactor must be negative even though the answer in the book says positive 2? I do not know why I did not get positive 2 for the first cofactor, or positive 4 for the 3rd cofactor.

I followed your explanation and got this for the 1st cofactor:
I crossed out -2, 1, 4 and 1, 2, 0 and then got this for the 2X2 determinant:
= -/0 1 top row 2 1 bottom row/ = -(0)(1) - (1)(2) = -0-2 = -2 (should be positive 2 like the answer in the book).

That should be:
$$ -\begin{vmatrix}0 & 1 \\ 2 & 1\end{vmatrix} = -\Big((0)(1) - (1)(2)\Big) = -(0-2) = -(-2) = 2$$
Then it has the proper sign doesn't it?

Tonia said:
I got this for the 2nd cofactor:
I crossed out 0, 2, 2 and 1, 2, 0 and then got this for the 2X2 determinant: - (Vertical bar here) -2 1 (top horizontal row) 4 1 (bottom horizontal row) = - /(-2)(1)-4(1)/
= -/-2-4/ = -/-6/ = -6 (same as answer shown in book).

I got this for the 3rd cofactor:
I crossed out 1, 0, 1 and 1, 2, 0 and then got this for the 2X2 determinant: - /-2 0 (top row) 4 2 (bottom row)/ = -/(-2)(2) - (4)(0)/ = -/-4 - 0/ = -4 (should be positive 4 like the answer in the book).

Same thing. We have to be careful to put parentheses where they need to be.
$$-/-4 - 0/=-(-4 - 0)=-(-4)=4$$
Then we find $4$ don't we?
 
I like Serena said:
That should be:
$$ -\begin{vmatrix}0 & 1 \\ 2 & 1\end{vmatrix} = -\Big((0)(1) - (1)(2)\Big) = -(0-2) = -(-2) = 2$$
Then it has the proper sign doesn't it?
Same thing. We have to be careful to put parentheses where they need to be.
$$-/-4 - 0/=-(-4 - 0)=-(-4)=4$$
Then we find $4$ don't we?

Okay, thanks. For some reason, I was thinking that the bars were like an absolute value sign, but it's not the same.
 
I like Serena said:
That should be:
$$ -\begin{vmatrix}0 & 1 \\ 2 & 1\end{vmatrix} = -\Big((0)(1) - (1)(2)\Big) = -(0-2) = -(-2) = 2$$
Then it has the proper sign doesn't it?
Same thing. We have to be careful to put parentheses where they need to be.
$$-/-4 - 0/=-(-4 - 0)=-(-4)=4$$
Then we find $4$ don't we?

I still don't understand how the 2nd cofactor is -6. This is what I did:
-/-2 1 (top row) 4 1 (bottom row)/ = -[(-2)(1) - (4)(1)] = -[-2 -4] = -(-6)
Why is the answer supposed to be -6 instead of positive 6? the two negatives should make it positive.
 
Tonia said:
I still don't understand how the 2nd cofactor is -6. This is what I did:
-/-2 1 (top row) 4 1 (bottom row)/ = -[(-2)(1) - (4)(1)] = -[-2 -4] = -(-6)
Why is the answer supposed to be -6 instead of positive 6? the two negatives should make it positive.

The signs are not all negative - they alternate.
The signs of the cofactors are like this:
$$\begin{vmatrix}+&-&+ \\ -&+&- \\ +&-&+\end{vmatrix}$$
The second element of the second row has a $+$ instead of a $-$.
 

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